Welcome to Cloudsville. If you're new, don't forget to sign up and say hi in the Introduction forum.

The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Page 4 of 15 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9 ... 15  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:49 am

A reply to my question on Midnight's Shadow:
I wrote:"and those Pegasoplian clans who had remained loyal to Princess Celestia"
…Um. I was under the impression that the Kicker Clan was the only one to side with Celestia and the only one to survive the war.
I wrote:Okay, it appears that there's actually some inconsistency here, given these two quotes from The Life and Times of a Winning Pony:
Anyway, Cloud Kicker’s family was one of the only pegasus clans didn’t join the Lunar Rebellion.
Cloud Kicker, every pegasus clan in Equestria backed the wrong pony in the Rebellion except for yours.
I'm inclined to give priority to the second, later one, though.
Ponibius wrote:The important part of that statement is "one of." There were other pegasi belonging to other clans who stayed loyal to Celestia. In fact, Cloud's mother was from a family that became nobles right after the war for their service.
It will also be covered in Chengar's The Lunar Rebellion story.
My reply:
I wrote:Aye, I understood that; I was pointing out that the two quotes were inconsistent with each other. Thank you for your reply, though. I've also asked Chengar Qordath about this, but that inquiry is not yet complete.

So, while my question-chains with these two authors are still not complete, it's looking like the non-Kicker pegasi and clans who went over to Celestia still had their clan structures destroyed… they were just also rewarded by, say, being made nobles. Which seems to me to still be a pretty clear example of the deliberate disassembly of Pegasopolian culture outside the Kicker Clan, just with a bribe attached.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:27 pm

O. Hinds wrote:So, while my question-chains with these two authors are still not complete, it's looking like the non-Kicker pegasi and clans who went over to Celestia still had their clan structures destroyed… they were just also rewarded by, say, being made nobles.  Which seems to me to still be a pretty clear example of the deliberate disassembly of Pegasopolian culture outside the Kicker Clan, just with a bribe attached.
Is it really a "bribe"?
Kinda reminds me of when the native americans were given x amount of money for x amount of land, whether they wanted to sell in the first place or not. No negotiating, no discussion at all, that's just the deal they were given. The US government could just as easily taken the land without throwing money at the natives afterward.

I don't think the pegasi would ever have given up their clans willingly in exchange for noble houses. Their entire culture for that of the unicorns', which could hardly be more opposite their own. All of their stoic lifestyle, warrior training, etc. for something so sedentary and opulent. I have a hard time imagining those noble entitlements lasting very long at all, the pegasi abandoning them, no longer having any respect for what their families had been forced to become.
It's really no wonder none of them exist anymore.

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:21 pm

swicked wrote:Is it really a "bribe"?
Kinda reminds me of when the native americans were given x amount of money for x amount of land, whether they wanted to sell in the first place or not. No negotiating, no discussion at all, that's just the deal they were given. The US government could just as easily taken the land without throwing money at the natives afterward.
Hm… Yes, I suppose. This seems to be a matter of semantics anyway; we had the same sort of exchange in mind.

swicked wrote:I don't think the pegasi would ever have given up their clans willingly in exchange for noble houses. Their entire culture for that of the unicorns', which could hardly be more opposite their own. All of their stoic lifestyle, warrior training, etc. for something so sedentary and opulent. I have a hard time imagining those noble entitlements lasting very long at all, the pegasi abandoning them, no longer having any respect for what their families had been forced to become.
It's really no wonder none of them exist anymore.
I think that there may have been a misunderstanding; they still exist. Nimbus Gust (Cloud Kicker's mother) was one before she married into the Clan, and I think that the Doos from which Derpy hails are another.
As for why they lasted… You've just been "rewarded" by being granted a noble house, with all the money and power and politicking and such that that entails. And you almost certainly hate it. But what else, exactly, can you do (and keep in mind that if certain parties thought that you were the sort too likely to revolt, the only title you got was "the late")?


Also, did you miss my big post on the previous page? No problem if you didn't and just haven't gotten around to replying to it yet, but I wanted to make sure that it hadn't gotten lost.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:16 am

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:Stalwart is a pretty great accomplice, too. The guy's so set in his ways he probably forgets he's talking to a magus half the time. Everyone should follow the same teachings that have kept him alive for so long, in his opinion, so why shouldn't this tiny mare? It's not like she has anything to make up for that lack of physical superiority...
I've not been sure exactly what Stalwart's motivations were (though he's clearly on the Kicker side), but that works.
Well yeah, it’s a best guess. She had in mind her perfect accomplice since before they’d even considered leaving. Either he’s going along with the plan, or he’s just kinda set in his ways. He seems really unfamiliar with what unicorn magic is.
Midnight equates it basically as being parallel to physical energy, with some overlap where if she physically exhausts herself it becomes difficult to focus her magic, and I assumed she implied the opposite happens, too. On top of that, she mentions the possibility of tapping her own life energy if her magic reserves were to run dry.
Magic is her thing. She has vast reserves of it. Minor cantrips like creating shade for herself appear to tax her no more than the walking everywhere does.
Stalwart, though, though it was something she shouldn’t “waste” any of, in case they are attacked. Gale, being far more familiar with Midnight and magi in general, knows it was no issue.
…just all the more proof as to why Stalwart thinks teaching Midnight how to physically defend herself is important. He seems to consider magic something to be used only when necessary.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:At some point I really need to figure out how to type as fast as I think.
I have that problem too.  My mother claims to be able to type faster than she can think, but I'm not sure how that works.
Yes, yes. My mother says absurd things, too.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:She's certainly a late-bloomer, though. Her angst and general emotional immaturity is at mid-teen level. I'll tell ya now, at 20, I was over glaring at people that annoyed me... though I was never one to glare at the back of someone's head. Waste of energy and hardly makes you feel better.
Her mom should have forced her to interact with more her own age. Not to make friends or anything, necessarily, but one can always gain from understanding other viewpoints. Different priorities. Hearing about others' lessons in order to have a better grasp of the merits of her own. Sunbeam undoubtedly benefited from the existence of her competition when they were not actively trying to kill her. Midnight doesn't seem to have any competition, rivals, etc. If she did, she'd have probably mentioned she did at some point, trying to figure out how her latest training would help her surpass some magus or another.
There is nothing so detrimental to progress than a complete lack of context and the apathy toward it that inevitably results.
Aye, between Sunbeam and Gale, well…
?
I can agree that Gale pretty immature at every available opportunity, but Sunbeam generally seems to seek to act composed unless she feels the situation calls for her to act otherwise. I’m not sure I follow what you are saying.

O. Hinds wrote:I do sort of understand the shrugging and moving on too, though, since that's basically what I did with regard to another classic piece of teenage inquiry (figuring out my sexual orientation).
No one really needs to figure that out. You’re attracted to who you are attracted to; it’s really a useless label. I ended up falling in love with someone of the opposite sex, but I certainly wouldn’t claim I couldn’t have fallen in love with someone of the same sex under different circumstances.
Basically, I never bothered to pursue that sort of question, either.

O. Hinds wrote:Oh, relations have certainly improved, but I think that there's still tension there.  I think that Gale and Shadow are still working together on this and playing roles.  Sunbeam isn't going to like Gale anyway, because Sunbeam can see at least some of what Gale is doing to her daughter… so why not, when Shadow and Gale have a problem with Sunbeam that they need to confront her about, have Gale work on it?  And if Shadow and Gale have something that Sunbeam will really like or a favor to ask of her, have Shadow do it.  Sure, Sunbeam might suspect, but there's at least some degree of plausible deniability.
I wonder if Shadow appreciates the extra work Gale puts into antagonizing Sunbeam, then…

O. Hinds wrote:None taken.  :)  I'm aware that I have some somewhat esoteric tastes.
Not TOO much so, in this case. I’ve met plenty of people who develop these fantasy words, complete with topography, cultures, political systems, urban legends and prominent figures, etc. before. It’s fun for many to develop worlds like that. It’s just not always fun for others to read about them :P

O. Hinds wrote:Hm…  I am wavering, but I still have doubts.  You say, for instance, that the possible teeth-outknocking of the investigator would be spun to make them the victim in the eyes of the unicorn public.  Why?  It seems to me more productive to spin the incident as a sign of how bad relations have gotten, that the investigator thinking that plausible enough to say was an indicator that the tribes were too separate.  After all, they would not have said that to another unicorn.  
You seem to think the entire story would be clearly communicated. The headline in the Canterlot times would read “PEGASI LEADER VIOLENTLY ASSAULTS UNICORN INVESTIGATOR OVER ALLEGATIONS OF FOUL PLAY” (or maybe something a bit shorter). No one would care that this was out of nowhere, essentially. The investigator would probably be the one reporting the story, not any of the pegasi, and even if that weren’t the case… there’s no way to really describe HOW things were said, only that they were and that the words were immediately met with physical violence. An investigation had already been started regarding the fact that pegasi were apparently clipping their foals. That would have already run through the newspapers as a result of it being vastly public knowledge (I mean, how could it not be… a TON of unicorn investigators were essentially drafted to perform this duty on very short notice). One can only wonder why the earth ponies weren’t upset about it, too. It’s a horrible practice and, by all appearances, the earth ponies were supporting it by raising these foals themselves. There have to be plenty of previously clipped ponies in and around the earth pony capital.

O. Hinds wrote:You have a point about the Pegasopolian constitution being written in steel, but I still have difficulty believing that something so destructive and hard to control as a civil war would be Sunbeam's first option.  She'd do it if she had to, certainly, but to go to it first?
I don’t know, really. We never got to see her entire plan. She might have had some aces in the hole that were meant to pan out and help her side win. If THAT were the case, though, the war shouldn’t have lasted 10-ish years and had such a cost. Maybe Shadow, or something else, screwed up her ability to respond to the war? Her being removed from her position as vizier certainly couldn’t have helped.
I don’t know why she would decide a civil war was the best way other than the fact that it was expedient. It was a gamble, but she had an alicorn on her side. The best I can figure is she might have felt the potential losses were worth it.
I just still don’t see how her plan of being horribly aggressive and disrespectful, from what you’ve said, could end up with the same results through peace.
If she wanted to simply show that the pegasi needed restructuring to end these atrocities, she should have simply aimed for an investigation that was, well… intelligent.

O. Hinds wrote:I'm not sure.  Midnight seems to have a rather ingrained low opinion of the locals, though.
I’ve kinda been wondering if her mom is similarly biased against earth pony farmers. Midnight has yet to relate an experience or any wisdom she’s gleaned from her mom regarding them, and her opinion might just be colored by simple things like her dislike of dirt, not having her own bed, physical labor, etc. Basically, disliking them as a group due to their proximity to things she already disliked.

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:02 am

swicked wrote:Well yeah, it’s a best guess. She had in mind her perfect accomplice since before they’d even considered leaving. Either he’s going along with the plan, or he’s just kinda set in his ways. He seems really unfamiliar with what unicorn magic is.
Midnight equates it basically as being parallel to physical energy, with some overlap where if she physically exhausts herself it becomes difficult to focus her magic, and I assumed she implied the opposite happens, too. On top of that, she mentions the possibility of tapping her own life energy if her magic reserves were to run dry.
Magic is her thing. She has vast reserves of it. Minor cantrips like creating shade for herself appear to tax her no more than the walking everywhere does.
Stalwart, though, though it was something she shouldn’t “waste” any of, in case they are attacked. Gale, being far more familiar with Midnight and magi in general, knows it was no issue.
…just all the more proof as to why Stalwart thinks teaching Midnight how to physically defend herself is important. He seems to consider magic something to be used only when necessary.
That makes sense.

swicked wrote:I can agree that Gale pretty immature at every available opportunity, but Sunbeam generally seems to seek to act composed unless she feels the situation calls for her to act otherwise. I’m not sure I follow what you are saying.
Ah, sorry. I was talking about your remark on her not interacting much with ponies her own age. Sunbeam does seem likely to have deemed it a suboptimal use of her time (unless Midnight was demonstrating, openly or secretly, her superiority to them), and the closest thing she seems to have to a friend her own age is… Gale. Who has a vested interest in and no qualms about keeping Gale submissive and dependent.

swicked wrote:No one really needs to figure that out. You’re attracted to who you are attracted to; it’s really a useless label. I ended up falling in love with someone of the opposite sex, but I certainly wouldn’t claim I couldn’t have fallen in love with someone of the same sex under different circumstances.
Basically, I never bothered to pursue that sort of question, either.
Aye, that's what I concluded. "I'm really not making much progress on this, unless you count the negative progress of finding even more questions I don't have answers to. Wait, hang on: do I even care? No? Great! I'll mark myself down as declining the concept of discrete sexual orientations and get on with other stuff."
I would still kind of like to understand the concept of gender, though.

swicked wrote:I wonder if Shadow appreciates the extra work Gale puts into antagonizing Sunbeam, then…
It's expected. If Gale was too nice, Sunbeam's suspicions might grow stronger, which in turn would make it harder to Shadow to work with her.
And I expect that Gale enjoys it. :)

swicked wrote:You seem to think the entire story would be clearly communicated.
No, just spun differently.

swicked wrote:The headline in the Canterlot times would read “PEGASI LEADER VIOLENTLY ASSAULTS UNICORN INVESTIGATOR OVER ALLEGATIONS OF FOUL PLAY” (or maybe something a bit shorter).
Would it? I'm assuming that Unicornia does not possess a free press.

swicked wrote:No one would care that this was out of nowhere, essentially. The investigator would probably be the one reporting the story, not any of the pegasi, and even if that weren’t the case… there’s no way to really describe HOW things were said, only that they were and that the words were immediately met with physical violence.
I was assuming that Sunbeam or her agents would be reporting it, actually. And what the words are is important here; most unicorns will be able to readily understand the gravity of accusing someone of murdering their spouse (before the end of the mourning period, no less) without any evidence. Headline… Well, I'm not a journalist, but here's an idea: "UNSUSPECTED TRIBALISM FLARES BETWEEN UNICORNS AND PEGASI IN CLOUDSDALE; IS EQUESTRIA SUFFERING A DANGEROUS LACK OF INTERTRIBAL UNDERSTANDING?"

swicked wrote:An investigation had already been started regarding the fact that pegasi were apparently clipping their foals. That would have already run through the newspapers as a result of it being vastly public knowledge (I mean, how could it not be… a TON of unicorn investigators were essentially drafted to perform this duty on very short notice). One can only wonder why the earth ponies weren’t upset about it, too. It’s a horrible practice and, by all appearances, the earth ponies were supporting it by raising these foals themselves. There have to be plenty of previously clipped ponies in and around the earth pony capital.
The earth ponies no doubt would have been quite upset about it (assuming that they heard; given the widespread illiteracy and the probable lack of a Unicornian free press, that might take a relatively long time) if it was confirmed. There's been one confirmed clipping and a lot of suspicion among a relatively small group of unicorns. Why should the earth ponies be more inclined to believe the unicorns' suspicions than the pegasi's denials? And the presence of potentially previously clipped ponies is in favor of support of the pegasi, since they all deny clippings (I'm sure that we would have heard about it if they did not).

swicked wrote:I don’t know, really. We never got to see her entire plan. She might have had some aces in the hole that were meant to pan out and help her side win. If THAT were the case, though, the war shouldn’t have lasted 10-ish years and had such a cost
Wait, what? What? Source, please, because that makes no sense. Midnight was around ten when the war ended; if the war lasted around ten years, she'd have to be one at most when it started… which makes no sense, given her appearances so far in The Lunar Rebellion.

swicked wrote:Maybe Shadow, or something else, screwed up her ability to respond to the war? Her being removed from her position as vizier certainly couldn’t have helped.
Well, Shadow did certainly severely disrupt her plans in many other ways.

swicked wrote:I just still don’t see how her plan of being horribly aggressive and disrespectful, from what you’ve said, could end up with the same results through peace.
Hm… I'm not sure how else to explain it. Sunbeam could make the pegasi villains, certainly, but then she loses a great deal of control. Among other things, the pegasi would be on the defensive and even more resistant to change than they usually are. By making herself and her investigators the villains of the affair, she retains control. Moreover, while some pegasi will still not be fooled, many of them might be persuaded that the initial reforms were a win for them, a correction of the flaws in the unicorn system that lead to the incident in the first place. Sunbeam might lost some public face, but privately the hoof is in the door and pushing.

swicked wrote:If she wanted to simply show that the pegasi needed restructuring to end these atrocities, she should have simply aimed for an investigation that was, well… intelligent.
That would only work if her accusations turned out to be true, and if she already had evidence of that, there would be no need for an investigation. On the other hand, if she ran a fully competent investigation and turned up nothing, it looks like the status quo is working out quite well and Sunbeam is paranoid, accusative, and maybe tribalist. Bye bye reform plans.

swicked wrote:I’ve kinda been wondering if her mom is similarly biased against earth pony farmers. Midnight has yet to relate an experience or any wisdom she’s gleaned from her mom regarding them, and her opinion might just be colored by simple things like her dislike of dirt, not having her own bed, physical labor, etc. Basically, disliking them as a group due to their proximity to things she already disliked.
Those make sense.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:15 pm

O. Hinds wrote:Ah, sorry.  I was talking about your remark on her not interacting much with ponies her own age.  Sunbeam does seem likely to have deemed it a suboptimal use of her time (unless Midnight was demonstrating, openly or secretly, her superiority to them), and the closest thing she seems to have to a friend her own age is… Gale.  Who has a vested interest in and no qualms about keeping Gale submissive and dependent.
Gale isn’t even vaguely Midnight’s age, but yeah.

O. Hinds wrote:I would still kind of like to understand the concept of gender, though.
It’s a social construct intermixed with genetic impulses. It’s another label, albeit possibly the most strongly-enforced one of them all. In many ways it’s both abusive and objectifying, as it’s arguably more about conforming to what the other genders want of you than what you want as a member of your gender. It’s all, finally, wrapped up in our desire to categorize and simplify the world around us by applying generally-understood concepts to everyone that falls into category A, B or C. It’s lazy and the only people that really enjoy these labels when they are applies to themselves are diluting themselves.
But that’s just my view of it as a feminist.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:An investigation had already been started regarding the fact that pegasi were apparently clipping their foals. That would have already run through the newspapers as a result of it being vastly public knowledge (I mean, how could it not be… a TON of unicorn investigators were essentially drafted to perform this duty on very short notice). One can only wonder why the earth ponies weren’t upset about it, too. It’s a horrible practice and, by all appearances, the earth ponies were supporting it by raising these foals themselves. There have to be plenty of previously clipped ponies in and around the earth pony capital.
The earth ponies no doubt would have been quite upset about it (assuming that they heard; given the widespread illiteracy and the probable lack of a Unicornian free press, that might take a relatively long time) if it was confirmed.  There's been one confirmed clipping and a lot of suspicion among a relatively small group of unicorns.  Why should the earth ponies be more inclined to believe the unicorns' suspicions than the pegasi's denials?  And the presence of potentially previously clipped ponies is in favor of support of the pegasi, since they all deny clippings (I'm sure that we would have heard about it if they did not).
When did town criers become a thing? I would expect there to be some call to know what’s going on in the world, particularly within the earth pony capital.
The clipped pegasi would probably deny the clippings until they realized how many of their number there are (if Sunbeam’s “research” isn’t entirely contrived, I mean).

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:I don’t know, really. We never got to see her entire plan. She might have had some aces in the hole that were meant to pan out and help her side win. If THAT were the case, though, the war shouldn’t have lasted 10-ish years and had such a cost
Wait, what?  What?  Source, please, because that makes no sense.  Midnight was around ten when the war ended; if the war lasted around ten years, she'd have to be one at most when it started… which makes no sense, given her appearances so far in The Lunar Rebellion.
The war was clearly something less than ten years, but it doesn’t seem implied that it was a ton less than that. Maybe 7? I dunno.

swicked wrote:Maybe Shadow, or something else, screwed up her ability to respond to the war? Her being removed from her position as vizier certainly couldn’t have helped.
Well, Shadow did certainly severely disrupt her plans in many other ways.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:I just still don’t see how her plan of being horribly aggressive and disrespectful, from what you’ve said, could end up with the same results through peace.
Hm…  I'm not sure how else to explain it.  Sunbeam could make the pegasi villains, certainly, but then she loses a great deal of control.  Among other things, the pegasi would be on the defensive and even more resistant to change than they usually are.  By making herself and her investigators the villains of the affair, she retains control.  Moreover, while some pegasi will still not be fooled, many of them might be persuaded that the initial reforms were a win for them, a correction of the flaws in the unicorn system that lead to the incident in the first place.  Sunbeam might lost some public face, but privately the hoof is in the door and pushing.
I guess that KINDA makes sense? That the ephors were supposed to agree to a more diverse investigation team after the first one screwed up so bad? It still seems like Sunbeam would have done better if she’d gone with the diversity idea in the first place.
Then again, maybe she did, and Celestia decided that would take too long and instructed her to just draft a bunch of unicorn investigators. Celestia did, after all, apologize for having rushed the selection and handling of it all (even if she did lay blame on Sunbeam for setting everything up, in the end).

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:If she wanted to simply show that the pegasi needed restructuring to end these atrocities, she should have simply aimed for an investigation that was, well… intelligent.
That would only work if her accusations turned out to be true, and if she already had evidence of that, there would be no need for an investigation.  On the other hand, if she ran a fully competent investigation and turned up nothing, it looks like the status quo is working out quite well and Sunbeam is paranoid, accusative, and maybe tribalist.  Bye bye reform plans.
So, when the second investigation fails, THEN she’ll be the paranoid, accusative tribalist, right?

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:15 pm

swicked wrote:Gale isn’t even vaguely Midnight’s age
swicked wrote:I can agree that Gale pretty immature at every available opportunity
:)
swicked wrote:but yeah.
Aye. And, while much of Gale's immaturity is likely just her enjoying herself (who, after all, is going to dare to complain?), I expect that at least some of it is because of Midnight.

swicked wrote:It’s a social construct intermixed with genetic impulses. It’s another label, albeit possibly the most strongly-enforced one of them all. In many ways it’s both abusive and objectifying, as it’s arguably more about conforming to what the other genders want of you than what you want as a member of your gender. It’s all, finally, wrapped up in our desire to categorize and simplify the world around us by applying generally-understood concepts to everyone that falls into category A, B or C. It’s lazy and the only people that really enjoy these labels when they are applies to themselves are diluting themselves.
But that’s just my view of it as a feminist.
…I guess. I still don't really feel like I get it, though. Then again, I may just be looking for the way in which something that just doesn't make sense makes sense.

swicked wrote:When did town criers become a thing? I would expect there to be some call to know what’s going on in the world, particularly within the earth pony capital.
Good point.

swicked wrote:The clipped pegasi would probably deny the clippings until they realized how many of their number there are (if Sunbeam’s “research” isn’t entirely contrived, I mean).
So they'd choose to believe that, instead of being well-taken-care-of after an accident, their home culture had been lying to them the entire time? Based on the unsubstantiated accusations of a foreigner? When the only confirmed Clipping in ages was clearly identified as such, horrified Pegasopolis, and resulted in the punishment of the perpetrator? I'm not seeing it.

swicked wrote:The war was clearly something less than ten years, but it doesn’t seem implied that it was a ton less than that. Maybe 7? I dunno.
Okay, how old do you think Midnight was at the start? Maybe ponies age differently, but she doesn't seem 3 to me.

swicked wrote:Well, Shadow did certainly severely disrupt her plans in many other ways.
I think that you experienced a quoting error here; that's exactly what I said, and you have it in response to a quote of yourself.

swicked wrote:I guess that KINDA makes sense? That the ephors were supposed to agree to a more diverse investigation team after the first one screwed up so bad? It still seems like Sunbeam would have done better if she’d gone with the diversity idea in the first place.
Eh? No no, I was thinking that the matter of the Clippings would be potentially outright dismissed and at least put aside for the time being.

swicked wrote:Then again, maybe she did, and Celestia decided that would take too long and instructed her to just draft a bunch of unicorn investigators. Celestia did, after all, apologize for having rushed the selection and handling of it all (even if she did lay blame on Sunbeam for setting everything up, in the end).
Hm, another possibility, yes. Regarding that last bit, though, are you suggesting that there may be more truth to Sunbeam's views of her job than Celestia would like to admit to herself? The role of the Blueblood family in The Best of All Possible Worlds (If you've not read it, it's not Winningverse; it's a HiE story set in Equestria's past and with the human in question being one Francois Marie Arouet) comes to mind.

swicked wrote:So, when the second investigation fails, THEN she’ll be the paranoid, accusative tribalist, right?
Why would there be a second investigation, at least any time in the near future?
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:46 pm

O. Hinds wrote:…I guess.  I still don't really feel like I get it, though.  Then again, I may just be looking for the way in which something that just doesn't make sense makes sense.
Well, then, you’d need to more fully explain your confusion for me to be able to answer adequately.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:The clipped pegasi would probably deny the clippings until they realized how many of their number there are (if Sunbeam’s “research” isn’t entirely contrived, I mean).
So they'd choose to believe that, instead of being well-taken-care-of after an accident, their home culture had been lying to them the entire time?  Based on the unsubstantiated accusations of a foreigner?  When the only confirmed Clipping in ages was clearly identified as such, horrified Pegasopolis, and resulted in the punishment of the perpetrator?  I'm not seeing it.
I just mean that each clipped pegasi living in earth pony lands thinks their clipping was an unfortunate accident that no one could have expected. If this practice was true, though, and the investigation into this potential clipping made any of them curious (especially any that were still a bit bitter of losing their birthright… their ability to fly) and try and seek other clipped ponies out…
Well, I just think they might take issue if what shouldn’t have been more than a couple turned out to be hundreds who all lost their ability in extremely similar training “accidents”.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:The war was clearly something less than ten years, but it doesn’t seem implied that it was a ton less than that. Maybe 7? I dunno.
Okay, how old do you think Midnight was at the start?  Maybe ponies age differently, but she doesn't seem 3 to me.
I don’t honestly care how long the war went on. Pretend I’ve been using whatever number you’ve already got in your head.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:I guess that KINDA makes sense? That the ephors were supposed to agree to a more diverse investigation team after the first one screwed up so bad? It still seems like Sunbeam would have done better if she’d gone with the diversity idea in the first place.
Eh?  No no, I was thinking that the matter of the Clippings would be potentially outright dismissed and at least put aside for the time being.
…so you’re saying that Sunbeam’s plan failed because she incorrectly predicted CELESTIA’S response to all this? That the alicorn that cares so much about children wouldn’t want to simply drop the investigation into their maiming?

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:Then again, maybe she did, and Celestia decided that would take too long and instructed her to just draft a bunch of unicorn investigators. Celestia did, after all, apologize for having rushed the selection and handling of it all (even if she did lay blame on Sunbeam for setting everything up, in the end).
Hm, another possibility, yes.  Regarding that last bit, though, are you suggesting that there may be more truth to Sunbeam's views of her job than Celestia would like to admit to herself?  The role of the Blueblood family in The Best of All Possible Worlds (If you've not read it, it's not Winningverse; it's a HiE story set in Equestria's past and with the human in question being one Francois Marie Arouet) comes to mind.
Never read that. I’m just saying, IIRC, Celestia said there was no time for her to set up the investigation or brief the investigators. She just had Sunbeam pull everything together ASAP before they both left.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:So, when the second investigation fails, THEN she’ll be the paranoid, accusative tribalist, right?
Why would there be a second investigation, at least any time in the near future?
Because Celestia would never have given up on trying to save those children from their potential ritualistic maiming.
It’s not in her nature.

Separate question: If Sunbeam had been allowed to stay in Canterlot while Celestia was on her tour, what do you think Sunbeam would have done in Celestia’s absence?

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:05 pm

swicked wrote:Well, then, you’d need to more fully explain your confusion for me to be able to answer adequately.
I just don't get why it's a thing.  I mean, sexual orientation is at least objective; gender is almost entirely a completely subjective cultural construct.

swicked wrote:I just mean that each clipped pegasi living in earth pony lands thinks their clipping was an unfortunate accident that no one could have expected. If this practice was true, though, and the investigation into this potential clipping made any of them curious (especially any that were still a bit bitter of losing their birthright… their ability to fly) and try and seek other clipped ponies out…
Well, I just think they might take issue if what shouldn’t have been more than a couple turned out to be hundreds who all lost their ability in extremely similar training “accidents”.
In training and in combat, accidents and injuries happen.  If Sunbeam had evidence, if Pegasopolis had tried to cover up this Clipping, then yes, there would be such action.  As it is, though…  I don't think that they'd seriously suspect, and if they did, they probably wouldn't mention it.  "You're insulting us and calling us liars after we've taken care of you after your injury, on the unsubstantiated words of a unicorn?"

swicked wrote:I don’t honestly care how long the war went on. Pretend I’ve been using whatever number you’ve already got in your head.
…Um, okay.

swicked wrote:…so you’re saying that Sunbeam’s plan failed because she incorrectly predicted CELESTIA’S response to all this? That the alicorn that cares so much about children wouldn’t want to simply drop the investigation into their maiming?
I think that it failed mostly because of Shadow escalating matters in service of her own goals, which Sunbeam was unaware of and thus unable to plan for.
Regarding Celestia, the pegasi, with their own investigations, say that there's no problem.  The maimed children say that there's no problem.  Once  Sunbeam also starts saying that there's probably no problem, that she and the others were unjustly suspicious of the pegasi just because they were pegasi…  As I said, the investigation might not be dropped entirely, but its priority would fall along with the perceived likelihood of it finding anything (and Sunbeam would then attempt to keep it from being reopened, just in case it would find something; the past can't be changed, and she's already working to make sure that such things don't happen again).

swicked wrote:I’m just saying, IIRC, Celestia said there was no time for her to set up the investigation or brief the investigators. She just had Sunbeam pull everything together ASAP before they both left.
…That doesn't address my question, so I'm guessing that the answer is "no".

swicked wrote:Separate question: If Sunbeam had been allowed to stay in Canterlot while Celestia was on her tour, what do you think Sunbeam would have done in Celestia’s absence?
Hm, hard to say.  To begin with, her reluctance to leave may have been played up or potentially entirely fabricated; that would make her better fit the "scheming grand vizier seeking to claim the throne" tropes.  It also may be that she was attempting reverse psychology to make sure that she was taken along.
Assuming for the question that she would indeed have preferred to stay in Canterlot, though…  The control she'd lose over the events in Cloudsdale would be replaced by much firmer control over how they were portrayed in Canterlot.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:31 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:I just mean that each clipped pegasi living in earth pony lands thinks their clipping was an unfortunate accident that no one could have expected. If this practice was true, though, and the investigation into this potential clipping made any of them curious (especially any that were still a bit bitter of losing their birthright… their ability to fly) and try and seek other clipped ponies out…
Well, I just think they might take issue if what shouldn’t have been more than a couple turned out to be hundreds who all lost their ability in extremely similar training “accidents”.
In training and in combat, accidents and injuries happen.  If Sunbeam had evidence, if Pegasopolis had tried to cover up this Clipping, then yes, there would be such action.  As it is, though…  I don't think that they'd seriously suspect, and if they did, they probably wouldn't mention it.  "You're insulting us and calling us liars after we've taken care of you after your injury, on the unsubstantiated words of a unicorn?"
...calling the EARTH PONIES liars? How? They'd be unwitting accomplices, at most. They don't know the pegasi they've taken could have potentially intentionally been rendered flightless.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:…so you’re saying that Sunbeam’s plan failed because she incorrectly predicted CELESTIA’S response to all this? That the alicorn that cares so much about children wouldn’t want to simply drop the investigation into their maiming?
I think that it failed mostly because of Shadow escalating matters in service of her own goals, which Sunbeam was unaware of and thus unable to plan for.
Regarding Celestia, the pegasi, with their own investigations, say that there's no problem.  The maimed children say that there's no problem.  Once  Sunbeam also starts saying that there's probably no problem, that she and the others were unjustly suspicious of the pegasi just because they were pegasi…  As I said, the investigation might not be dropped entirely, but its priority would fall along with the perceived likelihood of it finding anything (and Sunbeam would then attempt to keep it from being reopened, just in case it would find something; the past can't be changed, and she's already working to make sure that such things don't happen again).
...so, what you're saying is... Sunbeam put together all this info on potential clippings, ran a shoddy investigation to piss everyone off, then intended to back out after an incident occurred (which, in the case of the murder, included her goading the murderer into one of the pegasi's duels of honor and then doing horrible, horrible things to the pony in front of a crowd that included the ephors, firmly showing herself (Celestia's greatest adviser) to be the villain in their eyes.
After all that, the investigation was supposed to end with the statement "I guess we were just being racist, oops. Let's try to be better friends from now on, kay? How about we start with dismantling your government."
There was no enmity between unicorns and pegasi before this. If anything, Shadow had positive experiences with magi during mage hunts. There were favorable trade relations. Sunbeam's plan CREATED all this tribalist sentiment.
Do you think it was part of her plan to have Celestia fire her, too? Because I seriously bought in that Sunbeam considered herself indispensable.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:I’m just saying, IIRC, Celestia said there was no time for her to set up the investigation or brief the investigators. She just had Sunbeam pull everything together ASAP before they both left.
…That doesn't address my question, so I'm guessing that the answer is "no".
I don't think Celestia ever used Sunbeam as a scapegoat for unpopular actions, but it hardly matters when Sunbeam uses herself that way in Celestia's stead.

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:Separate question: If Sunbeam had been allowed to stay in Canterlot while Celestia was on her tour, what do you think Sunbeam would have done in Celestia’s absence?
Hm, hard to say.  To begin with, her reluctance to leave may have been played up or potentially entirely fabricated; that would make her better fit the "scheming grand vizier seeking to claim the throne" tropes.  It also may be that she was attempting reverse psychology to make sure that she was taken along.
Assuming for the question that she would indeed have preferred to stay in Canterlot, though…  The control she'd lose over the events in Cloudsdale would be replaced by much firmer control over how they were portrayed in Canterlot.
Ah, a xanatos gambit, then :P

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:17 pm

swicked wrote:...calling the EARTH PONIES liars? How? They'd be unwitting accomplices, at most. They don't know the pegasi they've taken could have potentially intentionally been rendered flightless.
No, calling the pegasi liars; you're right about the role of the earth ponies in this.

swicked wrote:...so, what you're saying is... Sunbeam put together all this info on potential clippings, ran a shoddy investigation to piss everyone off, then intended to back out after an incident occurred (which, in the case of the murder, included her goading the murderer into one of the pegasi's duels of honor and then doing horrible, horrible things to the pony in front of a crowd that included the ephors, firmly showing herself (Celestia's greatest adviser) to be the villain in their eyes.
After all that, the investigation was supposed to end with the statement "I guess we were just being racist, oops. Let's try to be better friends from now on, kay? How about we start with dismantling your government."
I think that she may have gotten carried away in the duel (and the duel may have been exaggerated by Shadow anyway), but essentially yes. As I mentioned before, though, it wouldn't start with dismantling the government of Pegasopolis; that's one of the ultimate goals, but it would be reached incrementally, too slowly to cause much notice or outcry.

swicked wrote:There was no enmity between unicorns and pegasi before this. If anything, Shadow had positive experiences with magi during mage hunts. There were favorable trade relations. Sunbeam's plan CREATED all this tribalist sentiment.
I think that it's debatable whether or not there were preexisting tensions, but it doesn't matter here. Even if the tribalism was created by the plan, the plan makes it look as if the tribalism was preexisting.

swicked wrote:Do you think it was part of her plan to have Celestia fire her, too? Because I seriously bought in that Sunbeam considered herself indispensable.
No, I do not. I think that that's where Sunbeam first started realizing that things were spiraling completely out of her control, that her plan was not just experiencing some surprises to be adjusted to but was in fact going badly wrong. I place the blame mostly with her overconfidence (which she'd likely realize rather quickly) and with Shadow's meddling (which would take longer to discover).

swicked wrote:I don't think Celestia ever used Sunbeam as a scapegoat for unpopular actions, but it hardly matters when Sunbeam uses herself that way in Celestia's stead.
Ah, thanks.

swicked wrote:Ah, a xanatos gambit, then :P
Pretty much. The problem was, she both overestimated the degree to which she'd be able to manage things and didn't account for the possibility of another player; either one individually she might have been able to recover from, at least enough to return things to the status quo, but the combination of her biting off more than she could chew and Shadow realizing "Hey, I can use this…" sent things screaming off a cliff. After that, she was first trying to do damage control and then, having seen which way the wind was blowing, playing simultaneously with and against Shadow to try and help Equestria as much as possible.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:20 pm

Actually, no; it's more Xanatos Speed Chess with the planning setting up the board, I think.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:39 am

O. Hinds wrote:I think that she may have gotten carried away in the duel (and the duel may have been exaggerated by Shadow anyway), but essentially yes.  As I mentioned before, though, it wouldn't start with dismantling the government of Pegasopolis; that's one of the ultimate goals, but it would be reached incrementally, too slowly to cause much notice or outcry.
This just doesn’t work for me. It’s got to be one of the worst ways to try and initiate reforms imaginable, this creation of an overblown conflict between the two tribes for the sake of bringing them closer.
It is far, far easier for me to believe she simply wanted to split up the races, defaming Celestia in their eyes by having their commander have so little faith in them that she investigates them all under the notion that they are all criminals.
Operating from that standpoint, that she wanted them to kick Celestia out of her office at their head, I then have to question what she intended to have happen. We’ve decided it was anything but a war, but yeah…

Maybe Sunbeam simply realized that Celestia was doing a terrible job as the pegasi commander and wanted her removed from office so that they could get someone competent to try and move past their potential stagnation under her lackluster leadership?

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:Ah, a xanatos gambit, then :P
Pretty much.  The problem was, she both overestimated the degree to which she'd be able to manage things and didn't account for the possibility of another player; either one individually she might have been able to recover from, at least enough to return things to the status quo, but the combination of her biting off more than she could chew and Shadow realizing "Hey, I can use this…" sent things screaming off a cliff.  After that, she was first trying to do damage control and then, having seen which way the wind was blowing, playing simultaneously with and against Shadow to try and help Equestria as much as possible.
I’m still not sure what Shadow did, exactly. Obviously encouraged the war. Maybe she had some backroom deal with… that one ephor that wasn’t from a popular house. The one that was so gun-ho about the war but wasn’t a fighter. I wonder if she did something to make him so endlessly enthusiastic about all of these meetings?
Additionally, I wonder if Shadow actually DID attend all these meetings she claims to have never been privy to. There is a degree of confidentiality to the meetings of the ephors and it certainly sounds like an excuse to just state she was never there when they decided on making war.

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:03 am

swicked wrote:This just doesn’t work for me. It’s got to be one of the worst ways to try and initiate reforms imaginable, this creation of an overblown conflict between the two tribes for the sake of bringing them closer.
It is far, far easier for me to believe she simply wanted to split up the races, defaming Celestia in their eyes by having their commander have so little faith in them that she investigates them all under the notion that they are all criminals.
Operating from that standpoint, that she wanted them to kick Celestia out of her office at their head, I then have to question what she intended to have happen. We’ve decided it was anything but a war, but yeah…

Maybe Sunbeam simply realized that Celestia was doing a terrible job as the pegasi commander and wanted her removed from office so that they could get someone competent to try and move past their potential stagnation under her lackluster leadership?
I don't think that Sunbeam's plan included Celestia's removal.  Celestia would apologize, admit that she was in the wrong (in large part due to being mislead) and had grown distant from the pegasi under her command, and start working to rectify the situation.  The original plan probably included dealing with Pegasopolis and the earth ponies separately at first, so that Celestia (and Sunbeam) wouldn't have to divide her attention, but I think that Sunbeam was still trying to adapt and keep the plan running right up until she was dismissed.

swicked wrote:I’m still not sure what Shadow did, exactly. Obviously encouraged the war. Maybe she had some backroom deal with… that one ephor that wasn’t from a popular house. The one that was so gun-ho about the war but wasn’t a fighter. I wonder if she did something to make him so endlessly enthusiastic about all of these meetings?
Well, to give just a single example of one of the things we saw (and no doubt there are many more that we didn't), she turned down the post of Commander when it was offered to her.  If she really wanted peace, she'd have accepted; her good relations with Celestia were, after all, a big part of the reason why she was nominated.  And so what that she believed the title was rightfully Celestia's?  Shadow was mortal; even if she never stepped down or got removed, her occupancy would have an expiration date.

swicked wrote:Additionally, I wonder if Shadow actually DID attend all these meetings she claims to have never been privy to. There is a degree of confidentiality to the meetings of the ephors and it certainly sounds like an excuse to just state she was never there when they decided on making war.
Hm, possible, I suppose. That might be more difficult to hide, but, then again, all the witnesses end up under Shadow, dead, or as untrustworthy exiles.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:52 pm

...but did the original plan have Celestia giving up on the investigation, or the ephors agreeing to a second round of the investigation with a more "diverse" group of investigators?
Because I don't think Celestia would have done the former, nor the ephors done the latter, so there was always going to be an impasse...

Shadow's significant "contributions" to the growing threat of war seemed to most;y involve doing nothing whatsoever to try and stop it. It's very odd. Did Sunbeam's plan really hinge on Shadow's contributions to anti-war sentiment?

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:56 am

swicked wrote:...but did the original plan have Celestia giving up on the investigation, or the ephors agreeing to a second round of the investigation with a more "diverse" group of investigators?
Because I don't think Celestia would have done the former, nor the ephors done the latter, so there was always going to be an impasse...
All that really needs to happen is for it to be postponed... and then delayed... and then put off... and then you get the idea until either Celestia decides that it's not needed or the Ephorate decides to allow it.

swicked wrote:Shadow's significant "contributions" to the growing threat of war seemed to most;y involve doing nothing whatsoever to try and stop it. It's very odd. Did Sunbeam's plan really hinge on Shadow's contributions to anti-war sentiment?
No. Like I said, Shadow was only half the problem; the other half was Subeam's overestimation of her own abilities. Regarding what Shadow did, even if we assume for this that that bit is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, Shadow doing nothing was (I believe), yes, quite significantly different from Sunbeam's projections. Shadow is well-regarded by both Pegasopolis and Celestia. She's intelligent and well-advised, and she seems dedicated to Equestria (not as much as Sunbeam, but Sunbeam is aware that she's an outlier). Why wouldn't she try to help and succeed in helping things cool down? And, again, though I don't think that Sunbeam ever expected it to become an issue, Shadow was offered the post of Commander, with seventy-five percent of the other Ephors convinced that she would be good for both Pegasopolis domestically and relations with Celestia diplomatically.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:57 am

It's a pity that we don't have another viewpoint on this. Any ideas for getting one?
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:59 am

O. Hinds wrote:It's a pity that we don't have another viewpoint on this.  Any ideas for getting one?
How do you mean?

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:24 am

Neither of us seems to be moving much on this question, and I'm starting to feel like we're beginning to repeat the same points with different words. A third viewpoint would either lend weight to one of our sides or give us a third possibility to mull over. And, even if we eventually come to agree on this issue, a third person would still likely bring additional insight.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:22 pm

No idea. I'm not very likable, so I doubt I could encourage anyone to join.
Read the 4th Midnight's Shadow chapter. Exciting, that. Kinda funny how "helping" her to fully exhaust her stamina hurt her ability to defend herself much more than using a bit of magic earlier.
I expect the irony to be entirely lost on all of the characters.

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:30 pm

swicked wrote:I'm not very likable
...Eh?

swicked wrote:Read the 4th Midnight's Shadow chapter. Exciting, that. Kinda funny how "helping" her to fully exhaust her stamina hurt her ability to defend herself much more than using a bit of magic earlier.
I expect the irony to be entirely lost on all of the characters.
:)
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:15 am

O. Hinds wrote:
swicked wrote:I'm not very likable
...Eh?
Well, I'm terrible at first impressions. Even on the internet. Everyone seems to dislike me, at first, so there's no point in me trying to lure anyone new here.

In any case, I suppose we just wait for one of the stories to update, now.

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:00 am

swicked wrote:Well, I'm terrible at first impressions. Even on the internet. Everyone seems to dislike me, at first, so there's no point in me trying to lure anyone new here.
Well, it's admittedly been a while, but I don't remember disliking you...

swicked wrote:In any case, I suppose we just wait for one of the stories to update, now.
Pretty much, I think, unless one of us things of something else to say or someone else joins the discussion.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:07 am

Oh, I've found a forum! It was very cleverly hidden behind a large button labeled "Forum"... Yeah...
Anyway, it's here. I've not read much of it yet, but I did find a timeline.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:12 am

Also, it looks like all Winningverse fics are meant to be run by Chengar Qordath before publication, so we can be a bit more confident about data gleaned from the works of other authors.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:16 pm

Okay, so, I read that changeling sellsword fic and... I mean, what the crap?
Freeport isn't a pun.

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:30 pm

I guess that they wanted to be free of having to have horsepun names, too. :D
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:39 am

O. Hinds wrote:Oh, I've found a forum!  It was very cleverly hidden behind a large button labeled "Forum"...  Yeah...
Anyway, it's here.  I've not read much of it yet, but I did find a timeline.
I don't see the phoenix empress AU, but kay.

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by O. Hinds on Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:00 am

It must not have been updated that recently.
avatar
O. Hinds
Zebra Engineer

Posts : 4843
Brohoof! : 382
Join date : 2012-05-09

Character List:
Name: Ris Haends Aeronauticus
Sex: Male
Species: Zebra

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by swicked on Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:39 pm

Did you want to bring up this discussion on that forum, then? Or what?
'Cause I figure, if we did, they'd just say we were wrong :P

swicked
Royal Alicorn

Posts : 6598
Brohoof! : 960
Join date : 2012-05-17

Back to top Go down

Re: The True Story of Shadow Kicker (and other Winningverse speculation)

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 15 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9 ... 15  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum