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[Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Meleagridis on Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:04 am

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Sassy crabs just wouldn't leave my mind.
Also voiced by Tabitha St. Germaine.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:53 am

So, anyway...

Even if Hinds' and Somber's headcanon diverge on the topic of the Zebras, last chapter of PH got us some interesting material to work with, or at least take inspiration from.

There's also the various megaspells and "places of interests" that have been mentioned, which could maybe be integrated in this setting, maybe ?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Moodyman90 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:03 pm

@ Mel about Gilda.

Because despite the events of "Griffon Brush-off" and any and everything that probably happened between that episode and that point in time, deep down Gilda still considered Rainbow a good friend. She may not be sorry that she has to kill Rainbow, but that doesn't mean she won't allow her a last request.

Least that's what I think.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:50 pm

Harmony wrote:There's also the various megaspells and "places of interests" that have been mentioned, which could maybe be integrated in this setting, maybe ?
What in particular do you mean by "places of interests"?

As for the megaspells (by which I assume you mean the Zebra elemental stuff)… they just don't seem right to me. I think of that sort of thing as being more Equestria's line, minus the sentience angle (and even Blackjack one speculated that, had the war continued, giant Zebra robots might be fighting Equestrian living spells). The Pax Roamana achieved some very impressive feats of spellwork (bypass spells, for instance), but the fact of the matter is that they had quite a bit less to work with. While that makes what they did achieve even more impressive, it also means that experimentation is much more expensive. Given the choice between spending a lot to develop something that only might work and spending the same amount to build a lot of what already works… I also, apparently unlike Somber, consider "elemental" magic to be a good distance outside what zebras are skilled with. I see most of their magic as being more technological; they're magical engineers, not spellcasters. Is this making sense to you?
Oh, and there's the fact that, if these magics of Somber's truly were sentient, they would have had to be persuaded to fight on the Zebra side. And as science fiction has taught us, creating a free-willed superweapon cannot possibly end badly for anyone.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:52 pm

"Places of interest" : for example, Roam as being still burning to this day, that city where everyone going in it falls into a coma, that other place where the level of radiation is still extremely lethal to this day... these kind of places. I may have forgotten some, but I'm too lazy at the moment to go and re-read the segment of the chapter where these are mentioned.

As for your interpretation of the zebra as "magical engineers", it makes sense to me, yes. They're kind of like Earth pony in that respect, as they have to channel their innate magic through their creations.

By the way, if the innate magic of earth ponies revolve around cultivating life and making it thrive (kinda), how would you "define" the zebra innate magic ?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:06 pm

Harmony wrote:"Places of interest" : for example, Roam as being still burning to this day, that city where everyone going in it falls into a coma, that other place where the level of radiation is still extremely lethal to this day... these kind of places. I may have forgotten some, but I'm too lazy at the moment to go and re-read the segment of the chapter where these are mentioned.
Ah, I see. Well, that's actually less ruined than I've been thinking Pax Roamana's lands were. Roam, for instance, I consider gone. Wiped off the map. A stretch of forest with not even archaeological evidence that there once was a city there (direct evidence, that is; travel a ways out and you could still find the remains of transport lines going into the city, but the city itself was wiped from the map). Other major PR habitation centers would be less ruined, but the average level of surviving structures would still be of interest primarily to archaeologists, not average people looking for shelter or loot. Profectum survived mostly, though not entirely (all those ghouls are there for a reason, after all), intact inside its prototype magical shield, and there are places like Mainbai that weren't heavily or at all targeted due to Equestrian forces fighting there, but most of the Pax Roamana's major cities are no more. It's the rural areas and occasional suburbs where nasty stuff like coma magic (though such enchantments have decayed over time, often weakening them but many times mutating them or making them more dangerous), high radiation, etc. lurk, though there the focus was less on destroying specific areas and more on using the targeted areas to create wider-ranging hazards.

Harmony wrote:As for your interpretation of the zebra as "magical engineers", it makes sense to me, yes. They're kind of like Earth pony in that respect, as they have to channel their innate magic through their creations.

By the way, if the innate magic of earth ponies revolve around cultivating life and making it thrive (kinda), how would you "define" the zebra innate magic ?
I'm not really sure what you mean by "innate magic". If you mean something like what ponies have, which your mention of earth pony innate magic makes me think, or the knack for geothurgy that I've given diamond dogs, I've not been imagining them as having any (hence my surprise and confusion at your question). I see them as a trope that I just found while researching this reply, Empowered Badass Normals; they don't naturally have magic of their own, so they make it. Can't punch through a brick wall? Strengthening potions, or just use a breaching charge. Can't fly? Flight fetishes and airplanes. Can't coax vegetation out of the ground like an earth pony? Apply alchemy to fertilizer production. Can't cast spells? The fact that a human can't overarm throw a photon across the room hasn't stopped us from building lasers.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:43 pm

Hmmm... So in your view Zebra are Magic-Void ? Interesting.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:09 pm

Magic-Void? What does the capitalization mean? Yes, though; probably, if not for ATR, which, unless I'm forgetting something, is currently the only story I consider fully canon for my headcanon, I'd have them not having relevant glyphmarks magically appear, the glyphmarks instead just being random but specific patterns that they're born with.

Also, sorry for not clarifying this earlier; I was assuming that you were assuming the same thing.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:44 am

Idea for why zebras are, as you put it, magic-void: a little while ago on an evolutionary timescale, the last common ancestor of zebras and ponies (which already had at least cutie/glyph mark magic, it appears) was beset by some manner of horrible predator that hunted primarily by magic-sense. Some of the common ancestor species escaped these predators by migrating north (though I'm not sure just from where), eventually arriving in the ancestral pony homeland (possibly over an ice-age-induced land bridge); this eventually lead to the evolution of ponies. Some portion of the common ancestor species that stayed eventually evolved to have a bare minimum of magic; to the predators they were barely distinguishable from the background magic, and thus the proto-zebras simultaneously lost a terrifying predator and gained many exciting new animal product resources to make things out of (possible a large contributor to why the predator species is extinct or at least much rarer now).
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Meleagridis on Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:52 pm

Moodyman90 wrote:@ Mel about Gilda.

Because despite the events of "Griffon Brush-off" and any and everything that probably happened between that episode and that point in time, deep down Gilda still considered Rainbow a good friend. She may not be sorry that she has to kill Rainbow, but that doesn't mean she won't allow her a last request.

Least that's what I think.
I don't get that, though. If she's still a friend, or anyone close enough to get that humiliating (to Gilda, at least) last request, then she must be some synonym of sorry. She may have no objections, she may realize there is no other option. But wouldn't she still be sorry?

O. Hinds wrote: I see most of their magic as being more technological; they're magical engineers, not spellcasters.  Is this making sense to you?
Personally, I found everything but the simplification here to make perfect sense.
As for all that Elemental stuff, you're not the only one that can't accept that into your own canon. It was my problem with the Legate fight. In FoE and PH there is very little evidence of zebras making merry with the earth, fire, water, chlorine things. It's so direct and unsubtle.
Then again, the only evidence we've seen of this is from the Legate whom we already know to be deceiving on many levels (doubly if one read the legate spoiler) and the only other affirmation we have is of those sentient megaspells, which at this point are little more than a rumour. but this sort of speculation is for a different thread.

O. Hinds wrote:Other major PR habitation centers would be less ruined, but the average level of surviving structures would still be of interest primarily to archaeologists, not average people looking for shelter or loot.  
This I only disagree with solely on the grounds of Fallout. Anyways...
If the capital is now absent of (big) threats, what's been stopping recolonization efforts from surviving nationalists? Honestly, it seems like the first place to drop your "Nobody-Will-Ever-Live-Here-Again" long-term damage doohickeys.

As for null-magic species, the thing just tastes funny given the setting. The earth is magic, the air is magic, breathing is magic, friendship is magic and all the little buggers what share them is all magic. For something amidst all this "Magic" to not be inherently magical itself seems... weird. Like they're missing something inherent, a requirement to be alive and participatory. The absence of which would outshine any and all defining features until it becomes central to their identity as a species. Or not. But as I'm understanding everything now, it just seems... weird.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:39 pm

Meleagridis wrote:If the capital is now absent of (big) threats, what's been stopping recolonization efforts from surviving nationalists? Honestly, it seems like the first place to drop your "Nobody-Will-Ever-Live-Here-Again" long-term damage doohickeys.
Because the capital isn't just absent of big threats, it's absent of itself. There's not even, I've been thinking, a lingering radiation field to show that there was something there. The only thing special about it is its historically-important location. This was partly deliberate. After all, what's more harmful to said surviving nationalists: a glowing trinitite crater with radiation strong enough to instakill anything setting hoof near it (and that will remain such for hundreds of years minimum) or an empty stretch of forest? Sure, the former is unlivable, but there are plenty of other places to live. What's important is that it's basically a gigantic monument to a martyred city; the old surviving nationalists can take their children to the minimum safe distance, pass them a telescope, and say "The ponies did this." The latter, yeah, it can be recolonized, but the most that can be said about it is "There totally used to be a great city in this apparently-virgin stretch of forest! Look, on these survey maps, you can see these old roads that used to lead into… Well, anyway, it's the ponies who are responsible for the growth of this rich woodland in which we now live!"

Meleagridis wrote:As for null-magic species, the thing just tastes funny given the setting. The earth is magic, the air is magic, breathing is magic, friendship is magic and all the little buggers what share them is all magic. For something amidst all this "Magic" to not be inherently magical itself seems... weird. Like they're missing something inherent, a requirement to be alive and participatory. The absence of which would outshine any and all defining features until it becomes central to their identity as a species. Or not. But as I'm understanding everything now, it just seems... weird.
Oh, I wasn't conceiving them as somehow holes in the world's magic, just as not having much magic beyond what the rest of the world does.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:41 pm

Meleagridis wrote:This I only disagree with solely on the grounds of Fallout.
Oh, and on this, remember that the Equestrian strategic megaspells were very much more powerful than their counterparts on the other side.
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That particular example is only debatably 'magic'

Post by Meleagridis on Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:16 am

Somehow, Fallout will find a way. What would the Chosen One be without the ability to break into people's homes and rifle through their stuff?Pinkie Pie 

O. Hinds wrote:
Oh, I wasn't conceiving them as somehow holes in the world's magic, just as not having much magic beyond what the rest of the world does.
But in a world where the default is bursting (literally, half the time) with magic, anything operating at a muted level IS a hole of non-magic, if only by comparison. Griffins show that inherent magic isn't just a pony thing. Sand dogs, too. In other sources (sometimes strange ones) the other races are attributed with their own brands of magic as well. So anything that doesn't have prominent magical talent has this null-magic property as a defining capability... or lack thereof.

The world isn't mundane. The standard is extraordinary. Every dog is Lassie, exceptional breathes fire, fantastic fashions life, and impossible does not exist. That's why I love this as a Fallout setting... it is wholly inappropriate for desolation.

The way I've understood things up to this point (until you explained your view) was that a zebra's 'knack,' their magical capability, was halfway between the gaudy fireballs of a hornhead and the imperceptible perfections of a dirt thumper. Through their creations they had power, from mass production to quality concoction. It was specifically talismans and brews through which they made their specialty known.

I don't know... now that I say it out loud, I realise that I never really put together the zebra shtick in my head. I just kind of accepted it and moved along. Could I hear a little more about your zebras?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:44 am

Meleagridis wrote:But in a world where the default is bursting (literally, half the time) with magic, anything operating at a muted level IS a hole of non-magic, if only by comparison. Griffins show that inherent magic isn't just a pony thing. Sand dogs, too. In other sources (sometimes strange ones) the other races are attributed with their own brands of magic as well. So anything that doesn't have prominent magical talent has this null-magic property as a defining capability... or lack thereof.

The world isn't mundane. The standard is extraordinary. Every dog is Lassie, exceptional breathes fire, fantastic fashions life, and impossible does not exist. That's why I love this as a Fallout setting... it is wholly inappropriate for desolation.
I still wouldn't describe a lack of particularly magical talent as "null magic"...

Meleagridis wrote:The way I've understood things up to this point (until you explained your view) was that a zebra's 'knack,' their magical capability, was halfway between the gaudy fireballs of a hornhead and the imperceptible perfections of a dirt thumper. Through their creations they had power, from mass production to quality concoction. It was specifically talismans and brews through which they made their specialty known.
What do you mean?

Meleagridis wrote:I don't know... now that I say it out loud, I realise that I never really put together the zebra shtick in my head. I just kind of accepted it and moved along.  Could I hear a little more about your zebras?
What would you like to hear?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:53 pm

So I've been pondering filling in more of my world map, and this is the first bit I've produced.  I may or may not do more of these.  Also, while this was inspired by things in the show and, in this case, a bit from PH, I was more concerned with what made sense, sounded good, and fit with the rest of my headcanon.  Also, the map is still in alpha, and the bits around the poles are particularly tricky.  Anyway, what do you think of this?

The Crystal Empire:
The mass migration from the ancestral pony homeland to the Equestrian Peninsula, as simplified and dramatized in the Hearth's Warming Eve pageant, was no in fact a total migration.  While the pegasi left the northern land en masse, going so far as to take their buildings with them, a substantial number of earth ponies and a small but significant number of unicorns remained behind.  Times were initially quite hard, as the cold period and resulting famine continued (and were, indeed, exacerbated by the cessation of pegasus weather control), and the new nation of Equestria decided, regretfully, to wash its hooves of the problems of the holdouts, focusing instead on its own development.  This was particularly the case once fighting broke out between the unicorns and earth ponies; while previously the military might of Pegasopolis kept an uneasy peace between the other two faction (conflict between them not being in the interests of the pegasi), now the holdout unicorns brought their magic to bear to coerce food from the earth ponies, who were claiming that, since the Equestrian unicorns were now controlling the celestial bodies, the earth ponies owed nothing to the holdout unicorns (indeed, this was one of the primary reasons they had stayed behind; things in Equestria might be friendlier, but the earth ponies were still handing their produce over to the other tribes).  The conflict raged for decades, unresolved until a unicorn mage discovered the potent magic-enhancing properties of the crystals found in the northern ice wastes.  With these in their arsenal, the unicorns emerged victorious, partly through military force and partly through mind and emotion-influencing spells.  Ironically, the earth pony farmers initially welcomed this, even discounting the effects of the mind and emotion magic; the unicorns were now also providing limited weather control through their magic, and the devastation of war and requisitions by earth pony freedom fighters had caused more loss of food than simply handing some over to the unicorns.  The new state thus formed under a unicorn nobility was dubbed the Crystal Empire and went on conquer all of the northern continent but the southern portions of the far east.

The new Empire established and maintained relatively friendly contact with Equestria until the defeat of Discord and the rise of the Princesses, after which relations initially spiked but then began to slowly decline.  The Princesses disapproved of the Empire's totalitarian, often extending to out and out use of mind-affecting magic, rule by unicorn nobility over a voiceless earth pony majority and took steps to stop it.  They worked only through diplomatic and economic means, though, hesitant to initiate military action.  This was, of course, resented by the Imperial nobility (and also by many of its earth ponies; the combination of propaganda, unicorn weather magic (not a good as pegasus weather control but better than nothing, particularly in the cold north), a stable and not wildly abusive government, and mind magic had produced significant popular support), who began to move away from ties with Equestria and talk it down in the Empire.  Things finally came to a head in the wake of the Nightmare Moon crisis; declaring that, if Celestia could not even keep her own sister from launching an insane coup, she definitely wasn't fit to tell the Imperials how to run things, the Crystal Empire severed ties with Equestria entirely.  It would become increasingly isolationist in the following millennium, and, though approached by both Equestria and the Pax Roamana, officially closed its borders entirely during the war.  While there was some under the table trade with both sides (though more with Equestria), both by the government and the black market, and a few expatriate crystal ponies (the by now magic-mutated earth ponies of the Empire) worked for one power or another, the Crystal Empire for the most part succeeded in staying out of the war.  Following the megaspell exchange, the Empire shuttered itself entirely, and it has remained so ever since.

Basically, I'm thinking something like a more prosperous (by necessity) and slightly less harsh (well, the emotion-control magic means that the people aren't as unhappy, at least…) North Korea with a climate based on Iceland.  [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO1FdPXlsWw]This music[/i] was also part of the inspiration.



I'm not sure what to do with the far east of the northern continent, but I've been pondering maybe putting Saddle Arabian, East and West Germaneigh, and the Trottoman Empire (I remember Germaneigh and the Trottomans were talked about here quite some time ago, but I don't remember that much and was thinking of maybe doing my own thing, if I do anything about them) east of the Pax Roamana and inhabited by horses (which I'm thinking of making relatives of zebras and ponies, having lost cutie mark magic but retained/developed some earth pony and pegasus magic).
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:36 pm

If you want inspiration : http://www.youtube.com/user/uriminzokkiri/featured

This is the official channel of the DPRK on youtube. Sweetie Belle
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Meleagridis on Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:43 pm

The mind control is leaving a poor taste in my mouth. This was before wartime magic and technology, so why would any of this not have been thoroughly abused in the big war with the zebras? Especially since it already proved effective in pacifying a no-magic population before (which also doesn't sit well with me, but I don't really know why so I can't get into it). Even if it starts with a moralistic issue, the end of the war showed pretty clearly that morals were no longer an issue. And if it was simple enough to be a primary tool in low-tech warfare before all modern conveniences, why would there be no deployment of it next to all these advanced options?

I hate to say it, but honestly the whole mind control thing seems to fit better into a Standard Fantasy MacGuffin. When it's introduced as anything vaguely standardized it just raises a whole bunch of red reader flags.

Plus there was that thing in FoE that said ponies never warred, but it seems this war is literally ancient history and I only remember that tidbit because of these other little nagging notices.

As for all that stuff from before, I think I might have been asking the wrong questions. I'll, uh... maybe bring it up later. When things are clearer.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:23 pm

Meleagridis wrote:The mind control is leaving a poor taste in my mouth. This was before wartime magic and technology, so why would any of this not have been thoroughly abused in the big war with the zebras? Especially since it already proved effective in pacifying a no-magic population before (which also doesn't sit well with me, but I don't really know why so I can't get into it). Even if it starts with a moralistic issue, the end of the war showed pretty clearly that morals were no longer an issue. And if it was simple enough to be a primary tool in low-tech warfare before all modern conveniences, why would there be no deployment of it next to all these advanced options?
It wasn't widely used in the war because the Imperial unicorns kept it to themselves. If it was used a lot in the wider world, after all, someone might find a way to break it, and they'd likely then be a bit bad at the Empire for giving it to the other side in the first place. Ability to bring down the Crystal Empire+desire to bring down the Crystal Empire=bad times for the Crystal Empire. Besides, why should they care enough about the war to bring that to bear? Their power source is magical or geothermal, and they've a long tradition of using crystal amplifiers instead of gemstone talismans (besides, amplifiers still need a unicorn, but talismans could be used by anypony). Combine that with the fact that the world going up like a powder keg would appear to be good evidence, both to the rulers and the people, that the Empire's isolationism was good for it, and I don't see why they'd get involved.

Meleagridis wrote:I hate to say it, but honestly the whole mind control thing seems to fit better into a Standard Fantasy MacGuffin. When it's introduced as anything vaguely standardized it just raises a whole bunch of red reader flags.
Well, I had the show's Crystal Heart in mind when I wrote it… What are the problems beyond what you stated above?

Meleagridis wrote:Plus there was that thing in FoE that said ponies never warred, but it seems this war is literally ancient history and I only remember that tidbit because of these other little nagging notices.
Actually:
Kkat wrote:Applejack was the one who broke it.  “Ah heard talk from some o’ the folk at the farmer’s expo last week.  They’re sayin’…”  She paused, as if scared of the words she was thinking and what would happen if she said them out loud.  “…we might be a’headin’ t’ war.”
 
Fluttershy gasped and disappeared behind a stump.
 
“Th-that’s impossible, Applejack.  Equestria has never had a real war in…”  Twilight Sparkle paused, clearly running through her vast studies of Equestrian history.  And finding nothing.   “…I don’t think Equestria has ever had a war.  At least, not in over a thousand years.”
It specifies Equestria. Now, from PH:
Somber wrote:“And the Caesar will fight back.  He has to.  That’s his sacred duty.”  He looked around at all the assembled ponies.  “I know it’ll take longer and be more difficult, but I’m sure it’ll be better than violence.”  More disdainful and dismissive talk.  ‘Listen to him,’ I wanted to scream!  Then he blurted loudly, “Please, listen to me!”  Apparently this broke so many rules of protocol that everyone did.  “The zebras have a word for this.  It’s not a fight.  It’s not a battle.  It’s war.  They use it when their entire country faces terrible threats.  Flights of dragons.  Swarms of manticores.  They’ve done wars before, where every zebra is drawn into the fight.  And they are terrible things.  Please, don’t resort to war to try and solve this problem when there are other means.”

There was a fragile, momentary pause.  Then the unicorn with the compass rose on his flank gave a disdainful snort.  “War.  Hardly sounds serious.  Let the Caesar bring his war.”
Somber wrote:Princess Celestia smiled at the assembled ponies.  “If you gentleponies would please give us a moment alone?”  There were mutters and talks as the aristocrats and businessponies were funneled out of the tent, leaving only the guard.  Celestia looked as if she was going to cry once they’d left.  “How has it come down to this?  Taking what we want?  Fighting?  War?”  Celestia rubbed her eyes.  “I’d forgotten that word; it’s been so long.”

“That young buck was mistaken.  It’s not a zebra word.  We invented it.  When you fought me,” Luna replied softly.  “Wyrre… wasn’t that how it was said back then?”

“Something like that.  I also remember how much I hated it.”  She took a deep breath, looking at her sister.  “What do you think, Luna?” Princess Celestia asked gently.
As for the first one, Blueblood is an idiot. As for the second, they're only discussing the word, not the concept, and the concept they're clearly familiar with.

Meleagridis wrote:As for all that stuff from before, I think I might have been asking the wrong questions. I'll, uh... maybe bring it up later. When things are clearer.
Um, okay then. Sorry.

And now I'm afraid that I need to be getting to Graduate Engineering Analysis I, after which the Space Hardware Club is meeting, after which I'm taking a voluntary class in soldering… Busy day.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:54 pm

A combination of rethinking and reading more about North Korea has lead me to indeed drop the mind magic. I'm keeping the emotion-influencing magic in for the time being, though.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Meleagridis on Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:47 am

O. Hinds wrote:A combination of rethinking and reading more about North Korea has lead me to indeed drop the mind magic.  I'm keeping the emotion-influencing magic in for the time being, though.
While I can't speak in any greater capacity I've got to say that, as a reader, this is far more accessible and thus much more terrifying and resonant.

And since I never figured out a way to shoehorn it in earlier, here's a thing I really liked on earth ponies vs. other ponies as written by Somber through Requiem.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:25 am

Meleagridis wrote:While I can't speak in any greater capacity I've got to say that, as a reader, this is far more accessible and thus much more terrifying and resonant.
Ah, splendid!  And yeah.  "Well, the previous three generations of my family lived in a labor camp, my brother was summarily executed for disliking the Emperor's new manecut, and I barely get enough food to live on, but... I just can't stop being happy about it all!"  Though the Crystal Empire does have one advantage over North Korea, at least for the majority of the past two centuries: North Korea can't truthfully claim that the rest of the world burned itself down in a war over resources that North Korea doesn't need (there sure were a lot of new technologies "invented" in the Empire during the war, though...).  And, of course, I can't help but think that the transformation of the earth ponies into crystal ponies both made them more susceptible to being magically convinced that life, despite all evidence to the contrary, was great (in addition to making the mud ponies less of an eyesore) and, possible more sinisterly (though it's hard to say), took rather more than one try to get right...

Meleagridis wrote:And since I never figured out a way to shoehorn it in earlier, here's a thing I really liked on earth ponies vs. other ponies as written by Somber through Requiem.
Aye, I remember that.  It wasn't just numbers that let the earth ponies stalemate the unicorns until the discovery of amplifier crystals, and the fighting could have continued if not for a: amplified weather control magic actually making the unicorns useful to the earth ponies, b: the actual farming earth ponies being fed up with the war, it being hard enough to grow enough food in the first place without soldiers trampling all over it, and c: amplified emotion magic convincing those earth ponies still against unicorn rule that now, actually, they were really happy about unicorn rule.

Also, I'm now a mite tired, so apologies if this post is a bit incoherent.


Last edited by O. Hinds on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:47 am

And, of course, reopening relations with the Crystal Empire in modern times will not be... easy. They're like North Korea, but the ruling party has emotion-influencing magic, the self-sufficiency actually works (if often not by an especially large margin), and they're had over a millennium to get good and indoctrinated. I'm watching a documentary on North Korea at the moment, and the place is just insane (which I knew, but the documentary drives it home again)... You laugh, and then you realize that multiple millions of people are actually having to live there.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:57 am

Oh, and I also find it darkly comedic that the only place (as far as I know) to survive the war completely intact is, in fact, worse than many places in the Wasteland... and that it was in large part because of this that it survived.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:44 pm

Am I the only one to imagine Donkeys to have a Latino / Mexican / Hispano-American influence to their culture ?

I know the Dogs are supposed to be the "Maya / Inca", at least as far as the pre-Equestrian period is concerned (with El-Dogado), so where would that put the Donkeys ?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:53 am

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Am I the only one to imagine Donkeys to have a Latino / Mexican / Hispano-American influence to their culture ?

I know the Dogs are supposed to be the "Maya / Inca", at least as far as the pre-Equestrian period is concerned (with El-Dogado), so where would that put the Donkeys ?
Well, I hadn't.

I'm not sure...  I'm looking at the map, but nothing's really coming to mind.
Oh, here's an image of the current alpha version of the world map.:
(My name for it is El Dogrado, by the way.  Is there a reason for the change, or was it just a typo?)
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:22 am

By the way, if we're assuming that the paths of the sun and moon are always coaxial with the Equus (which seems reasonable, though I'm not sure how natural seasons are explained... Maybe the sun's orbit grows larger and smaller over time?  That wouldn't work with orbital mechanics in our universe, but neither would Equus's system in general.  So that would have the sun periodically slowly spirally in and out... perhaps there's some sort of magical effect that flips polarity when the sun gets too close or two far away?), then Equus's poles could have peaks of eternal light (and I think it's a bit awesome that that seems to actually be the name) and valleys of eternal night.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:02 am

I've been wondering what the Alliance and NCR will do about the Crystal Empire. Even neglecting all other resources (Elusive, for instance, based on intelligence reports (the Imperials fortunately can't penetrate Alliance cloaking technology, though mingling with the locals is impossible) and Vetribus overflights, is quite interested in potential tourism and resort operations. What? He's the world's richest postapocalypse bussiness"pony" and partly based on Rarity; of course he's going to look at the Empire's beautiful pseudo-Icelandic landscape and think that people would pay to visit.), the eponymous crystals are already known to have industrial applications. The problem is that the Empire is uninterested in peaceful relations and is pretty much uninvadeable (In addition to the problem of no unicorn weather control=frozen arctic wasteland for most of the Empire, I'm imagining that there are watchtowers/teleportation relay stations built along the border and coast. And even if, say, the Miliozi blasted through that and the unicorns were prevented from effectively dropping or reversing their weather magic, the invaders would meet extremely heavy resistance from the locals.) by the Alliance or NCR.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:48 am

Probably the same thing as with North Korea IRL : containment, and covert attempts at trying to undermine the regime.

Of course, these attempts have little chance to succeed, and will likely end up antagonizing the locals even more, but eh, better that than trying to go in all gun blazing, heh ?

As for the NCR, at least in the foreseeable future, it would probably not be aware of the existence of the empire, and even if it was, there's simply nothing it can do, not even counting the fact it has more urgent problems closer to home to take care of.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:18 pm

Harmony wrote:Probably the same thing as with North Korea IRL : containment, and covert attempts at trying to undermine the regime.

Of course, these attempts have little chance to succeed, and will likely end up antagonizing the locals even more, but eh, better that than trying to go in all gun blazing, heh ?
I don't see how they can even do that, though.  The crystal ponies and imperial unicorns (assuming that Sombra's non-shadow-monster appearance is relatively typical) are sufficiently different that any agents meant to mingle would need significant disguise work, and that's neglecting internal security or a simple "We haven't seen you around here before..."  Not that it matters, since any dissent sown among the crystal ponies would be washed away by happy magic, and the unicorns by this point mostly believe their own propaganda.  Maybe one could find a unicorn or two who didn't and wanted things that the outside world could provide, but it would be a titanic effort.  Imperial culture is by and large convinced that things from the outside world are at best worthless or inferior to what the Empire already has and at worst poison intended by the jealous, inferior outsiders to bring down the greatest nation in the world.

At least containment isn't an issue either (though on offense outside their homeland, the Imperial military would fold like wet paper before the Miliozi and probably before the NCR), since the Empire has no equivalent of South Korea.  Following their old failure to take the whole of the northern continent, they announced that actually they'd decided not to expand farther south, since the Empire already had a perfect land.  Add in a millennium or so of culture growing from that and they're just as disinterested in leaving the Empire to invade somewhere else as they are in leaving it for any other reason (and, though there are likely a few outlier unicorns who feel otherwise, the most they could do would probably be leg it over the land border by themselves with no support and no hope of coming back).

Harmony wrote:As for the NCR, at least in the foreseeable future, it would probably not be aware of the existence of the empire, and even if it was, there's simply nothing it can do, not even counting the fact it has more urgent problems closer to home to take care of.
Yeah, I was thinking that.  Peaceful relations would actually be relatively easy for the NCR, since the Empire is developed and secure already, but the Empire is completely disinterested in peaceful relations.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:18 pm

So I had a rather funny thought: in one possible future, the Moojave Union could form as a semi-democratic American-style representative system. The Rose Party vs. the Cactus Party. The former would be following in the steps of (and originally formed mostly from) the Rose Banner and the Cow Guai (it struck me that, aside from the slavery debate, in many ways they could be seen as natural allies (both have questionable reputations, have been persecuted, have done things to warrant persecution, favor rather harsh internal discipline and dealings with opposed outsiders, etc.); Rose Eye would definitely try to sell it as that, at least, when and after making the anti-slavery deal), arguing for a strong authoritative government with charismatic leadership and a policy of harsh dealings with the Union's enemies, while the latter would be formed from the Great Cows and the more average locals and seek more equal rule and peaceful dealings.

Also, this was typed up in two parts, both while I was in a hurry, so sorry if it's a bit rough.
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