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[Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:59 pm

Thanks! That definitely sounded French. :)
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:01 pm

Also, for the benefit of those reading after the split, the original thread is here:
http://cloudsville.forumotion.com/t976-fallout-equestria-setting-discussions
Assuming that the permalink works, that is.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:56 am

Somber's confirmed by email that the planet in PH doesn't rotate.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:17 pm

This pose interesting questions regarding the nature of its sun, or at the least of the force making it rotate around the planet ; and following this the nature of Equestria's "solar" system - if there is any planet or notable astronomical body in the system other than "Equestria", its moon and the Sun, that is.

This also raise the question of if this is something standard in this universe, or if it's an idiosyncrasy proper to Equestria and the magic infusing it : my headcanon would be that it is an heritage left from Discord's time, or even from before.


... Speaking of that, I just had an interesting idea, which I suppose i'm not the first to have : that Discord is part of a race of powerful beings who had a hand in creating Equestria (the planet) in the first place, and that for a reason or another (maybe they went on, to somewhere else, maybe they killed each other), they disappeared from Equestria, with only Discord (and maybe a few others like him) remaining.


I think there is an interesting mythology to be built here, yes.

The way I imagine it, the Draconequus could be the Olympians to some even earlier and meaner Titans, and Celestia and Luna being some sort of "monotheism" (a dual deity) replacing the "polytheism" of the Draconequus, and imposing Form and Order to what would have before been the Primitive Chaos (irony option : Celestia and Luna descend from the last "Titans").

After an eon of slumber, Discord would have awoken to a world that he didn't recognize anymore, and as the last of the Draconequus he would have tried to regain his rightful place as ruler of the world, trying to bring it back to its Primitive Chaos. He would have succeeded, for a while, but that's around then the Elements of Harmony came to be, and they were used to seal him off, around a thousand years before FiM (probably a century or two earlier than that).

However, he would have left the land in ruin, and in the wake of his reign of terror, quite a bit of nastiness would have soiled the planet, not too unlike the present wasteland of the FoE era, though less radioactive. [Here I wanted to plug something about the Crystal Empire and Sombra, but I remembered they weren't included in Somber's canon, or at least very selectively]

Most of the magical weirdness roaming the world, like the cockatrice, or the manticores, are a remain of that era where the primitive chaos of Discord returned to the land. It's only through the power of Harmony, through the guidances of the two living godesses of the Day and Night, that the various sentient species of the world managed to make the world more livable : the tale of the Hearth Warming Eve is a parable to that ancient post-apocalyptic era, not a truthful historical account.




Basically, the idea is that the planet has already in the past suffered an Apocalypse, although magical and nature, and that its effects are still visible to that day (FiM era), although from the point of view of an Equestrian, you would have difficulties seeing things from that angle : from their point of view, things are as perfect as they can be (FiM era average pony).
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:49 pm

Ah, yes, I know : the Titans could be "star beings", primal representations of the powers of the cosmos. Completely alien, kind of like a cosmic horror, without the "horror" part (though that can be argued). And from some mythological event emerged the Olympians (draconequus), who drove off the Titans (star beings) from "Equestria" (although I'm not sure the planet itself would have already existed at that time), and creating their own "home" from this bubble of primordial chaos, thriving in it. Maybe that's around then the planet Equestria would have been created, with the Sun revolving around the planet - maybe a sign of defiance of the Draconequus against the Stars ?

The eons would have passed, and the Draconequus would have started being lost in time, finding other things to do, choosing to cease to exist, etc.... Being made of the essence of Chaos itself, well they're bound to act in ways we wouldn't really think of as "rational". And some simply would have picked a nap. A reeeeeaaaally long nap. Like Discord.


The world would have moved on, the sentient species inhabiting the planet growing without their draconequus masters above them.

[I don't remember if Celestia and Luna are supposed to have arrived on Equestria before or after the Starkatteri had the Eater crash on zebra-Hoofington ?]

Celestia and Luna arrive on Equestria (the planet), start doing their things ; but likely because of the presence of these "star people" on the planet, Discord awaken, and he start wrecking shit, in true Discord fashion.

Ensue a reign of terror, and what is basically a magical apocalypse, until the Elements of Harmony (who knows how they came to be ?...) are used against him to seal him away.

After his fall the two Goddesses try to clean up most of the mess, or at least the worst parts as there's a lot of things they can or won't do nothing about.

Then Nightmare Moon happen after Luna get exposed to the Eater.

And we know the rest of the story.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:03 pm

By the way, I choose to believe that since the first moment Discord was first sealed, Celestia and Luna knew they had only a limited (if not short) amount of time before Discord would break free again, and they would have started moving their pawns on the great game from there on out in order to prepare for his eventual return.

Celestia was blindsided by the corruption her sister suffered at the "hand" of the Eater, which threw a big wrench in her plans, and so she had to start planning for other people than her sister and herself to use the Elements of Harmony.

I like the idea that the Mane 6 are the result of a very long term planning, at the scale of Celestia's immortal lifespan, to create the "perfect" bearers for the Elements - first to save and rescue her sister upon her return from her 1000 years imprisonment, and then to handle Discord's return.

Then happened what happened in the show.

I'm not sure if in this continuity they tried reforming Discord or not. I'll go with no - well, he already almost destroyed the world once, then tried to do so again once he had the chance. I'll say Project Chimera support this hypothesis.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:56 pm

Harmony wrote:This pose interesting questions regarding the nature of its sun, or at the least of the force making it rotate around the planet ; and following this the nature of Equestria's "solar" system - if there is any planet or notable astronomical body in the system other than "Equestria", its moon and the Sun, that is.

This also raise the question of if this is something standard in this universe, or if it's an idiosyncrasy proper to Equestria and the magic infusing it
I don't know.

@Harmony:
I'm afraid that I find this hypothesis a bit confusing, and I'm not sure how much of it is meant to be for this universe. Quite a bit of it seems to contradict what we've already got, unless you're ignoring those bits. PH provides the origin of Discord as a cosmic trickster spirit, for instance.

Harmony wrote:[Here I wanted to plug something about the Crystal Empire and Sombra, but I remembered they weren't included in Somber's canon, or at least very selectively]
Somber's canon definitely includes the Crystal Empire, though I'm not sure to what degree; it's our work here that's ignoring that.

Harmony wrote:Most of the magical weirdness roaming the world, like the cockatrice, or the manticores, are a remain of that era where the primitive chaos of Discord returned to the land.
That makes sense, though there's lots of other magic also running around.

Harmony wrote:the tale of the Hearth Warming Eve is a parable to that ancient post-apocalyptic era, not a truthful historical account.
I view Hearth's Warming Eve as Equestria's holiday celebrating its founding, connected to thinking of the "carol" as its national anthem. Though, yes, I also believe the play to be heavily simplified.

Harmony wrote:[I don't remember if Celestia and Luna are supposed to have arrived on Equestria before or after the Starkatteri had the Eater crash on zebra-Hoofington ?]
That's a wrong question, I'm afraid. The Eater came down prior to the evolution of ponies and zebras; the Starkatteri were trying to make it rise, and instead they called the star that… I suppose you could call it Celestia and Luna's mother. Anyway, that was the event that birthed Luna and Celestia, who hung out on their respective celestial bodies for a while before the whole Discord thing prompted them to descend (though this last part is my headcanon; PH doesn't make clear, IIRC, just when Celestia and Luna came down from the sun and moon). Getting pretty much fully into my headcanon, my timeline has Discord, Celestia, and Luna descending about 680 years after the destruction of the old Northern capital.

Harmony wrote:I'm not sure if in this continuity they tried reforming Discord or not. I'll go with no
Agreed.


Also, I think that I'll just start calling the planet "Equus", as a name for it would be convenient and I've seen Equus used elsewhere. Let me know if you've an objection, though.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:01 pm

Equus seems fine by me.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:59 am

I don't know what we might use this for, if anything, but it looks interesting:
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/2d6b26e2b3b5
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:18 am

It smells of Elusive. I could imagine him secretly setting up a pearl collar of such bases around the Equestrian Peninsula sometimes in the future if the NCR were to turn hostile, for sea-launched SAC-II missiles launch sites and more generally a sea-blockade of the Peninsula.

Otherwise, and more peacefully, the Elusive Company (and not the Alliance at large) could use this to spread its influence in the Marediterranean sea and beyond, literally colonizing the seabeds. Armed conquest isn't Elusive's thing, so to spread his direct influence something tells me he'd go for the New Frontiers (the undersea, and maybe someday... space ?)

You could even imagine him setting up in the future undersea tunnels with maglevs trains networking the various colonies. I know you like trains...
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:26 pm

Harmony wrote:It smells of Elusive. I could imagine him secretly setting up a pearl collar of such bases around the Equestrian Peninsula sometimes in the future if the NCR were to turn hostile, for sea-launched SAC-II missiles launch sites and more generally a sea-blockade of the Peninsula.
Well, not SACIIs. They were quite impressive for their time and can still be quite effective, but the Alliance would prefer something more newer. Megaspell casting facilities, ideally, but at least newer missiles.

Harmony wrote:Otherwise, and more peacefully, the Elusive Company (and not the Alliance at large) could use this to spread its influence in the Marediterranean sea and beyond, literally colonizing the seabeds. Armed conquest isn't Elusive's thing, so to spread his direct influence something tells me he'd go for the New Frontiers (the undersea, and maybe someday... space ?)

You could even imagine him setting up in the future undersea tunnels with maglevs trains networking the various colonies. I know you like trains...
A neat idea and perhaps something to be done eventually. At the moment, though, there's so much "unclaimed" (not claimed by anyone important) land in Zebrica that it's not really cost-effective to mine out seabed space instead. The exception might be a tunnel to connect Elusive City to the TMC system, but that also might be built as floating. Though maybe also something in the middle of the Gibhalter tunnel… Hm…

As for space… well, the Alliance currently uses high altitude balloons for navigation, communication, and observation, but they're quite aware that something higher could be even more useful. :D My early pondering speculates that perhaps the Alliance will construct Baiponur Spaceport near Port Maple, but I'm not sure.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Somber on Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:01 am

The griffons would disgree.  Every griffon knows the planet is called the great egg.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Guest on Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:23 am

So... I feel this needs to be asked. In post apocalyptia do they see the egg as fried or scrambled?

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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Somber on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:31 am

In post apocalyptia, they see the egg as eaten.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:59 am

By the Great Snake in the Sky who also makes the moon disappear once a month ?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:43 am

Somber, you're here! An unexpected pleasure. I bid you welcome to our headcanon thread.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:47 pm

I was just doing a bit of research, and, interestingly, my maps, if my measurements and calculations are correct, put Hoofington less than 300km north of Baikonur's latitude and Port Maple less than 300km south of Cape Canaveral's
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:52 pm

Interesting.


Hmm.. I just thought of something : as the planet doesn't rotate, the concept of "polar orbits" doesn't really work.

But on the other hand, you don't really give a damn about your inclination (unless you want to rendez-vous with a ship launched from another base) ; as any way you put it, if you get off from a base and don't change you inclination in orbit, you'll always fly over the base once per orbit.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:46 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Interesting.


Hmm.. I just thought of something : as the planet doesn't rotate, the concept of "polar orbits" doesn't really work.

But on the other hand, you don't really give a damn about your inclination (unless you want to rendez-vous with a ship launched from another base) ; as any way you put it, if you get off from a base and don't change you inclination in orbit, you'll always fly over the base once per orbit.
Hey, yeah, good point! While polar orbits, as in orbits over the poles (the poles being defined in relation to the equator, which is defined in relation to the paths of the sun and moon), still work, polar orbits as orbits that let one eventually see the whole planet don't. Though I'll point out that inclination matters for rendezvousing with things other than ships; Equestria's moon program would have had to hit the moon, after all.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:32 am

Also, the absence of a planetary rotation goes a way to simplify the calculation of sub-orbital trajectories : just point and shoot, no need to worry about where the place you're aiming for is going to be in X amount of time.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:57 am

Aye, another good point.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:23 am

Another interesting thing : the sky would look to never move, the stars always staying in the same spot, depending on where you are on the surface. This is unless the Sun-Equestria system actually revolve around a third point.

What this would mean is that star-navigation for sea-ships would be quite different. And simpler. You'd just need to have a map of the constellations, calculate a few angles, and you'd always know where you are, latitude and longitude.

Of course, you could only do this as night. During the day you'd have to use the course of the sun to guide you.


You know what, I think the conditions on Equestria are really favorable for the development of intercontinental navigation early on, as soon as people develop trigonometry and astronomy. You don't really need to develop complex clockwork time-keeping instruments to keep track of your longitude. Just a magnetic compass (if there's a magnetic north).



By the way, as the planet doesn't rotate... Would there even be a magnetic field ?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Meleagridis on Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:23 am

Griffin swears and slang:

Shittin' Simurghs! (Generic exclamation)
Cracker! (Egg cracker; vile, irredeemable bastard)
Milker! (Like a full mammal; soft and clueless, mostly used by racists)
Agas Contract (Bound to something very unwelcome or self-harming, often used to describe addiction)
Buya (Vague term that could describe anything that keeps a griffin from working, from an army to a hangover to just not being in the mood)
Gildan! (Closest approximation would be dashite, but for obvious reasons the comparison is far from perfect)
Frashebird (Bringing to fruitful completion, something of an opposite to buya. Also used as a positive exclamation)
Izha (Literally, "terms." The conditions of an agreement, though usually used to describe those that require a sacrifice)

And a whole dictionary's worth of insults for the Enclave.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:42 am

Very interesting, yes.

Meleagridis wrote:Gildan! (Closest approximation would be dashite, but for obvious reasons the comparison is far from perfect)
this may be a question of interpretation, but isn't Gilda's only "sin" to have offered her contracted service to what would become the Enclave to take care of a problem only relevant to internal pony politics ?

In short, is that really worth an Equivalent to "Dashite", which would imply "traitor to your own race" ?

I guess the meaning would be closer to "value-less opportunist who would service the highest bidder regardless of ethics". In short, insulting the integrity of the person and the value said person puts on his / her contract.

Oh, and maybe also maybe something about "being disloyal enough to be ready to kill your oldest friend for a contract".

Meleagridis wrote:And a whole dictionary's worth of insults for the Enclave.
:D

Really, the question isn't "who hates the Enclave ?", and more "who doesn't ?"
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Meleagridis on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:11 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:
By the way, as the planet doesn't rotate... Would there even be a magnetic field ?
May not be magnetic, might be magic. There's got to be some sort of field or radiation produced by all that mojo.

Harmony Ltd. wrote:
this may be a question of interpretation, but isn't Gilda's only "sin" to have offered her contracted service to what would become the Enclave to take care of a problem only relevant to internal pony politics ?

In short, is that really worth an Equivalent to "Dashite", which would imply "traitor to your own race" ?

I guess the meaning would be closer to "value-less opportunist who would service the highest bidder regardless of ethics". In short, insulting the integrity of the person and the value said person puts on his / her contract.

Oh, and maybe also maybe something about "being disloyal enough to be ready to kill your oldest friend for a contract".
This is more because of Carrion's off-talon comment that Gilda was trying to make some kind of griffin-centric contract to help the whole race. No details on that and no personal theories, so I'm not exactly sure what the word would mean. Or maybe that's the best possible interpretation: a title of respect or damnation depending on what, exactly, the speaker 'knows' about Gilda. If I'm not mistaken, she never had any canon lines in FoE, right? I'm pretty sure everything I remember her saying was the work of a fan.

Harm wrote:
Meleagridis wrote:And a whole dictionary's worth of insults for the Enclave.
:D

Really, the question isn't "who hates the Enclave ?", and more "who doesn't ?"
Griffins have special Enclave hating T-shirts, I'd imagine, since they have actually been conquered by them once in the past. I wonder how scattered they are? Likely they were completely upended after the war (not The War, but the littler one after) but they at least had some time to recombobulate and get themselves together. How much of their own culture survived?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:54 pm

Harmony wrote:You don't really need to develop complex clockwork time-keeping instruments to keep track of your longitude.
Hm… Good point! You take your latitude during the day using the sun and your longitude at night using the stars.

Harmony wrote:By the way, as the planet doesn't rotate... Would there even be a magnetic field ?
It might still have a rotating core. Or just magic.

Meleagridis wrote:Griffin swears and slang:

Shittin' Simurghs! (Generic exclamation)
Cracker! (Egg cracker; vile, irredeemable bastard)
Milker! (Like a full mammal; soft and clueless, mostly used by racists)
Agas Contract (Bound to something very unwelcome or self-harming, often used to describe addiction)
Buya (Vague term that could describe anything that keeps a griffin from working, from an army to a hangover to just not being in the mood)
Gildan! (Closest approximation would be dashite, but for obvious reasons the comparison is far from perfect)
Frashebird (Bringing to fruitful completion, something of an opposite to buya. Also used as a positive exclamation)
Izha (Literally, "terms." The conditions of an agreement, though usually used to describe those that require a sacrifice)

And a whole dictionary's worth of insults for the Enclave.
Neat. :)

Meleagridis wrote:If I'm not mistaken, she never had any canon lines in FoE, right? I'm pretty sure everything I remember her saying was the work of a fan.
Nope, sorry.
Kkat wrote:“She’s good.  The best.  I’m better.  And she knows it…”
 
A second voice sounded on the audio recording, gruffer than the mare’s, “Sure.  Which leaves a gal to wonder why you’re just sitting up here letting me find you.”
 
“Hello, Gilda,” the mare’s voice replied, sounding tired.
 
“Sorry it had to end this way, Dash.”
 
“No you’re not.  Not really.”
 
“Naw.  Not really.”
 
“…”
 
“Gilda… can I make one request?”
 
“What?”
 
“Can we sing it?  One more time?”
 
“Huh?  Sing what…?  oh you can’t be serious.”
 
“Just once?”
 
The second voice let out a long-suffering sigh.  “Ugh.  Why?”
 
“Because, just for a moment, I want to remember an earlier, happier time.  A time when the world didn’t suck.”
 
“Fine.  …Only for you, Dash.”  The voice paused.  “One final time.  But after that, you know I’m going to kill you.”
 
“You’ll try.”
 
The two voices blended into an odd harmony:
 
“Junior Speedsters are our lives.  Sky-bound soars and dare…”
 
The audio recording abruptly cut off; the machine had reached its limit.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Meleagridis on Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:27 pm

O. Hinds wrote:
Meleagridis wrote:If I'm not mistaken, she never had any canon lines in FoE, right? I'm pretty sure everything I remember her saying was the work of a fan.
Nope, sorry.
E-excuse me, I got something in my eye:
Kkat wrote:“She’s good.  The best.  I’m better.  And she knows it…”
 
A second voice sounded on the audio recording, gruffer than the mare’s, “Sure.  Which leaves a gal to wonder why you’re just sitting up here letting me find you.”
 
“Hello, Gilda,” the mare’s voice replied, sounding tired.
 
“Sorry it had to end this way, Dash.”
 
“No you’re not.  Not really.”
 
“Naw.  Not really.”
 
“…”
 
“Gilda… can I make one request?”
 
“What?”
 
“Can we sing it?  One more time?”
 
“Huh?  Sing what…?  oh you can’t be serious.”
 
“Just once?”
 
The second voice let out a long-suffering sigh.  “Ugh.  Why?”
 
“Because, just for a moment, I want to remember an earlier, happier time.  A time when the world didn’t suck.”
 
“Fine.  …Only for you, Dash.”  The voice paused.  “One final time.  But after that, you know I’m going to kill you.”
 
“You’ll try.”
 
The two voices blended into an odd harmony:
 
“Junior Speedsters are our lives.  Sky-bound soars and dare…”
 
The audio recording abruptly cut off; the machine had reached its limit.
Oh. Well... that still leaves a lot of room for interpretation of Gilda.

But... if she's not sorry it had to be this way, why is she still willing to sing the song?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:03 pm

So, I was just thinking... Do you think there's sentient marine life on the planet ?

Like giant thinking crustacean ?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Meleagridis on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:02 pm

Are you intentionally trying to get someone to say, "Shoo-bee-doo?" Because it worked. If there is a giant crab, it can only lead to dark things.

And sea serpents are confirmed, aren't they?
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

Post by Harmony Ltd. on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:07 pm

Sassy crabs just wouldn't leave my mind.
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Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

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