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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by cb5 on Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:04 am

Somber wrote:My headcanon for Celestia and Luna are that during the age of Discord, Unicorns, Pegasi, and Earth ponies didn't like each other.  Celestia was born a unicorn, and Luna a Pegasus, and they learned to overcome their differences and were the first to discover the elements of Harmony.  I also headcanon Celestia having an older sister who was an Earth Pony before she became a princess, but disliked how Celestia treated Luna and broke up with her sister after Nightmare Moon was banished.

Tomorrow I move for good, and Tuesday I find out if I get my job.  Packing and moving in a pain in the ass...
Speaking of which Cadance according to MLP canon was born a pegasus.  Also we may finally get the origins of Celestia and Luna in season 4 cause one of the teasers at sdcc was probably a flashback episode.

Also hopefully you get the job.


Ps.  I have a side question, is in Project Horizons magic a force/radiation/or a type of matter?  What I mean by that is magic a force like gravity, or is it a type of radiation like heat and magic radiates, or is there a magic particle?

Also Ps. You should post more, or join us for game nights.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by WavemasterRyx on Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:27 am

Somber wrote:Tomorrow I move for good, and Tuesday I find out if I get my job.  Packing and moving in a pain in the ass...
*hugs very gently* Good luck, Somber, I really hope you can get it, and I hope the move goes okay.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:44 am

Good luck, dude! I hope the job and the move go smoothly.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:43 am

Somber wrote:My headcanon for Celestia and Luna are that during the age of Discord, Unicorns, Pegasi, and Earth ponies didn't like each other.  Celestia was born a unicorn, and Luna a Pegasus, and they learned to overcome their differences and were the first to discover the elements of Harmony.  I also headcanon Celestia having an older sister who was an Earth Pony before she became a princess, but disliked how Celestia treated Luna and broke up with her sister after Nightmare Moon was banished.
In the show, you mean? That makes sense.

Somber wrote:Tomorrow I move for good, and Tuesday I find out if I get my job.  Packing and moving in a pain in the ass...
Good luck!
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Valikdu on Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:23 am

stringtheory wrote:
cb5 wrote:I like the theory of magic being a type of radiation cause there was this really good fanfic that I can't remember the name of right now where they had some super advanced technology, but made you feel as though it was believeable in a magical world.  Like they had personal teleporters, cars, planes, shields and stuff that worked without unicorns by converting electricity into magic or magic into electricity and it was really good cause they were like, "by using electricity gemstones we can convert between magic and electricity like a transformer".
Well there's Outside the Reaching Sky which is soft sci-fi and has a magitech Equestria make its first interstellar journey while all the other races apparently run of regular technology.
I can vouch for Outside... being good. As with the other ones by that author.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Scienza on Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:02 pm

Somber wrote:Tomorrow I move for good, and Tuesday I find out if I get my job.  Packing and moving in a pain in the ass...
I feel your pain, as I moved a few months ago. Good luck, you beautiful madman.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by swicked on Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:33 pm

SilentCarto wrote:
cb5 wrote:Nah.  Fausticorn was never Celestia and Luna's canon mom.
I have a feeling that if we ever get Luna and Celestia's origin story in canon, we may learn that they were originally unicorns, and creating the Elements of Harmony to defeat Discord was the destiny fulfillment that alicornicated them in the first place. (I say unicorns because moving the sun and moon was the job of unicorns before the princesses came along, so that would explain their special bond to the celestial bodies.)

If they were originally mortal ponies, it suggests two possibilities. Either being linked to the sun and moon specifically imbued them with life as long as the celestia bodies last, or being an alicorn makes you immortal. Remember, nobody has ever specifically stated that Twilight is not immortal now -- only that "she will not outlive the rest of the Mane Six". Which would still be true if the other five eventually also got alicornicated.
...weren't they called unicorns in that first storybook portion of the show's pilot?

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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by cb5 on Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:47 pm

Scienza wrote:
Somber wrote:Tomorrow I move for good, and Tuesday I find out if I get my job.  Packing and moving in a pain in the ass...
I feel your pain, as I moved a few months ago. Good luck, you beautiful madman.
I've had to move at least 70 times in my life. If I lived near somber I have moved or helped other people move so much that if I threw stuff that needs to be moved into the air it would magically land in the moving truck pre-packed with tape and facing the right way and fragile objects would have packing peanuts apparate around them :V
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Scienza on Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:52 pm

SomberMy headcanon for Celestia and Luna are that during the age of Discord, Unicorns, Pegasi, and Earth ponies didn't like each other.  Celestia was born a unicorn, and Luna a Pegasus, and they learned to overcome their differences and were the first to discover the elements of Harmony.  I also headcanon Celestia having an older sister who was an Earth Pony before she became a princess, but disliked how Celestia treated Luna and broke up with her sister after Nightmare Moon was banished.
I personally believe that there were four other Element-bearers who either chose not to become immortal or died in the battles between Nightmare Moon and Celestia. One was the previously mentioned relative of Celestia/Luna who produced Blueblood's line. I see Celestia as being the element of Laughter and Luna being that of magic.


cb5 wrote:
Scienza wrote:
Somber wrote:Tomorrow I move for good, and Tuesday I find out if I get my job.  Packing and moving in a pain in the ass...
I feel your pain, as I moved a few months ago. Good luck, you beautiful madman.
I've had to move at least 70 times in my life.  If I lived near somber I have moved or helped other people move so much that if I threw stuff that needs to be moved into the air it would magically land in the moving truck pre-packed with tape and facing the right way and fragile objects would have packing peanuts apparate around them :V
Ouch. Normally, all my cheap-ass furniture just breaks when I try to pack it.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by nebulous on Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:56 pm

I wonder how the Calamity is handled in Wastelander? Could be surface-born, but it would be oh so tempting to have a character from the Enclave to be a fish out of water. So maybe,

Calamity expy: Ah'right, ya have ta take this slow. This is a tricky maneuver, and a few ensigns have gotten their wings jammed tryin' and fell clear to the surface.
Cocky ensign: Hey, don't ruffle your feathers, I've got this covered!
*one saving of Cocky Ensign's life and a long fall later...*
(Calamity expy crash-lands into a pile of pegasus skeletons, hyperventilates as the surface's toxins and radiation attack his system, and passes out)
(Fade in from black)
CE: Wha... what happened?
Velvet Remedy expy: Well, featherbrain, you took a nasty fall, got sick, and despite having no immunities to surface diseases you managed to pull through. I'd have given it a one in ten million chance.
CE: But that's--that's more than the population o' the whole Enclave!
Deep, sexy voice from offscreen: So I guess you could say that...
(P-21 expy enters stage right, generating bishie sparkles like they're going out of style)
P-21 expy: ...you're a miracle.
(Calamity expy has a nosebleed.)

Though that still wouldn't explain Glory. Could have one of them be surface-born, I suppose. And the Wasteland would be little points of semi-functional society lost in a sea of raiderghoulmutants, with all the ponies who still have their equinity glad that at least the pegasi could live on like they did in the old days, and holding nothing against them since, after all, going to the surface for a pegasus would mean nearly instant death. No one ever mentions biohazard suits or anything of the kind.

Editing:
You guys weren’t any different from ponies.  Always looking for that one thing that would let you win.  That one advantage.  That one… whatever… that’d let you kill more ponies than zebras.  You used dragons.  We made Raptors.  We made power armor.  You make armor-piercing bullets.  We made megaspells.  You made balefire bombs.  We made Thunderheads.  You made Tempests.

[tense weirdness]

“Well, there’s no official record of how many or how powerful.  That’s all been lost.  Neighvarro claims they’re all either defunct, failures, scrap, or under their control depending on which pony you ask, but we did record one firing a while ago.  The beams were ten teraspark beams.  That’s strong enough to cut through a Raptor, or a dragon.  Ruffled quite a few feathers.”

[sounds awkward, maybe "The beams were ten terasparks each" or just the fragment "Ten teraspark beams"]

[And in chapter 54:]

He regarded me for a long moment.,“You seek to save the people of this cursed land?” he asked, gesturing towards the Core with a sweep of his hoof.

“It appears, Maiden, that we are at an impasse.  It is unfortunate that I cannot break you when you are at the peak of your destiny”

[Lacks a period. Also, shouldn't that be until you are at the peak of your destiny?
]

“No,” I replied.  Rampage arched a brow, and I amended, “No to the Dash.  No to fighting all of them.  I don’t want to risk all of you against him.

P-21 rolled his eyes, “And what makes you think we want to risk you against him on your own?”

[Needs an end quotation mark]

“You profaned your body with metal and machines to gain your strength, violating your very essence,”  He smiled,

[Either the comma at the end of his sentence should be a period or the h in the he should be lowercase]


Rampage turned it over in her hoofclaws.  “Woah, freaky.


Last edited by nebulous on Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:19 pm

Good luck with the move, Somber! And I hope the job works out.

Well, chapter twenty five was pretty big. I'd say the most important points were the reactions from Glory and P-21, but the introduction of the Reapers and some world building helped flesh it out, along with the goodbye from Gorgon. Sanguine doesn't come across as too interesting (looks cool, though), but Psychoshy is, of course, glorious, a ludicrously charismatic antagonist for all that she's an abrasive, unlikeable bitch. Not too much else to say, but Big Daddy's pretty cool, more for his philosophy, role, and prophesy than just as a snarky old badass, at least as far as I'm concerned.
Oh, and Blackjack's apparently eaten paste. Before becoming a cyberpony. Though I suppose that's not a huge surprise.

Chapter Twenty Five Running Thoughts:
“Sure.  She’s not worth my time anyway,” the mare said as she flicked her mane dismissively.  “Her blue buck is much more interesting!  See you later, Wahhhpage.”  With a snotty little giggle, she flew off through the store.

After such a long absence (departure with The Styg, not from chapter twenty four), it's easy to forget just how enjoyably nasty Psychoshy was, especially early on. Now, it's not the easiest thing to track exactly when everything happened, but I have a strong feeling that this was published after "The Return of Harmony," so she's probably channeling Flutterbitch pretty strongly. (Okay, it looks like to predate the start of season two, Somber would have had to average a chapter a week almost from the original publication date of Fallout: Equestria, which I don't think happened) Which is great; she was always my favorite of the Discorded ponies.


She looked over a few aisles to where Psychoshy was fluttering over a small crowd that seemed quite excited to meet the pretty pegasus psychopath.

I suppose it's inevitable that beauty would be an early characteristic of her that we would see.


I asked, then winced as something inside me squirmed.   Oh, I really hoped that it was supposed to do that.

Okay, so it looks like this chapter is where her failing body really starts to move from the background to the foreground. Makes sense, as the last major arc is almost wrapped up, with just the fallout left, and we need something else to take its place as a long-term conceit. Looking back, it's stunning to be reminded just how dense things were around this time, with big, key plot threads spawning and resolving rapidly even as the main action moves from place to place and focus to focus with each chapter.


“They split up.  Not really sure why,” Rampage said, giving me a significant look.  Probably because one of them ran off to do something foolish like killing themselves.  “After that, Awesome crowned himself King Awesome of Hoofington, Crunchy Carrots went back to Manehattan and came back with a whole slew of Steel Rangers, Keeper went his own way to set up the trade routes around the city, and the Professor established the Eggheads over at the university.”  She rubbed her chin.  “There was a sixth, but I dunno what happened to her. “

The start of the Hoofington Six, and so much more important, and personal, than I'd ever have guessed from the start, or even a fair way through.


Funny, but after riding a dragon and a pegasus, the drop to the floor of Megamart… was still enough to make my insides squirm.  Wasn’t I supposed to eventually get used to things like this?

I wish that were the case, but I still feel shocks of fear from edges and stairwells from time to time. It's not the crippling terror I had years ago, but some phobias never really go away.


Glory lay curled up as tightly as when I’d seen her trapped in that stove.  What an unbearable shit I am.  I didn’t deserve her, and she didn’t deserve this.

This is an apt and touching simile, that really drives home Glory's attachment and dependency regarding Blackjack. And while she doesn't deserve this, in fairness, neither does Blackjack; okay, maybe the pain of having hurt her friends, but certainly not the underlying self-hatred and hopelessness that led her to do so.


“You… you fiend!  You monster!  You creep!  You filly seducer!  You… you… bad pony!” Glory said as she thumped me over and over again.  The magic had left with the alicorn, and the Hoofington drizzle poured down on both of us.  “How could you do that to us?  How!  I’ll… Ohhhh!  Idiot!  Idiot!  Idiot!” she chanted over and over again as she kicked at me.  I put up only a halfhearted defense.

Now, this is an important reminder of the sheltered, enclosed existence Glory had before joining the Corps; the vocabulary is (or at least starts out) fairly high level, but even in the depths of her passionate ire almost seem like the laughably tame attacks of a child. And that's one of the key contrasts between the characters, for while until recently neither had really seen the real world outside of their protected homes, BJ had made the effort of growing socially (even if she was stymied by her role in security) while being an utter failure in mental and magical fields, where Glory is like a nicer, more friendly version of pre–season one Twilight, hugely focused on academic pursuits and socially stunted.


“I… we met with P-21… and he was crying… crying!  And you!  You were gone, and I was… I had nothing left, Blackjack.  No family.  No home!  No Blackjack!  Nothing!  Do you understand?  Nothing!”

How far she's come with him. And of course soon we'll see just to what an extent she was his foundation by this point.


“Why didn’t you just tell me?  Talk to me?” she asked softly.  “I would have helped you.  We all would have.”
“I didn’t want help.  I was stupid and cowardly.  I wanted to escape.  I can still smell the gas.  Right now, holding you, I can smell that chlorine.  I can hear Midnight calling me a murderer.”  I closed my eyes, a part of me trapped in 99 forever.  “I couldn’t live with it.  I couldn’t handle it.  I ran to either find something to keep me going... or… or end it.”
Glory trembled as she looked away.  “And… I wasn’t enough.”
“No.”  I turned her face back towards mine as I repeated softly, “No.  Glory, you weren’t ‘not enough’.  You were too much.  Too much good and wonderful that I didn’t deserve.  That I still don’t deserve,” I said as I closed my eyes.  “I wanted… needed… to punish myself.  I couldn’t do that with you with me.  I was falling apart and dead inside.”  I sighed as I stroked her wet mane.  “I should have turned to my friends.  Not away from them…”

I still think this is one of the saddest passages in the whole story. All the more so because it comes from both sides, each wishing desperately to have been different, Glory hearing that she coudn't be the reason Blackjack needed to hold on, and Blackjack deeply ashamed at her weakness, her self-hatred, and her cowardice.


. . . and Cuffs asked Glory if she needed some quality chain to keep me from getting away.  I flushed as Glory looked at me in consideration of her offer.

I didn't remember this starting so early. Though I suppose this does qualify as foreshadowing their reconciliation as romantic partners, to the extent it wasn't pretty probably anyway.


Trick pony… if it was anything like what  P-21… that had to be like getting fucked by a jerky stick!  

Okay, I know it's not in the source material, but Swicked's version of Psychoshy is just ungodly hilarious. I guess this is as good a place as anywhere to say that, and thank Somber for managing a character who is messed up is a way that's just much more fun than so many of the others; again, their problems are the core of what I love about the story, but occasional diversion is a good thing since otherwise everything can get so heavy.


I caught the change. The turn of a blue ear.  The slight widening of his eye followed by a slow sag of his body.  His teeth tightening on the handle of the plunger.  Eyes that refused to look away from Scotch Tape at work.

The body language here is very strong. The less obvious point is how well she can read him, given that he's spent most of his life hiding his feelings.


“All right… but make sure you wash?”  I wrinkled my nose.
She snorted in scorn.  “You spend a few weeks on the surface and get so soft you can’t even handle the smell of honest work.  Sad, Blackjack.  Really sad,” she said as she passed by me.
“I… you smell of poo water!  That’s not soft!” I yelled after her.  “I’ve had boats dropped on me.  You can’t survive that if you’re soft!  Hey!”  The door closed behind her and I pouted a little.  “I’m not soft…”

It's times like this I wonder how much Blackjack's character was modeled after Vash the Stampede. But really, the odd little places where Blackjack's ego shows up are a great source of humor, and a reminder that, in a way, despite being an unstoppable killing machine, at heart she really does belong in prewar/show-continuity Equestria, not here. See also: Octavia.


“You think that, if you can just die in some appropriately gruesome fashion, particularly if there’s lots of pain and suffering beforehand, that somehow you’ll save the Wasteland.”  He said ‘save’ with a vague smile and a wave of his hoof.

And here's one of the places where we really start to see that he's not her crazy; that's not what she thinks, and it's not why she wanted to kill herself. Even if she doesn't know it, or entirely believe it consciously.


Dealer's whole "self-centered" discussion with Blackjack is a little bit frustrating. In many ways, yes, Blackjack's outlook is very self-focused. Partly, I think that it's simple subconscious practicality, in that because really all she can control is herself. I still don't know how sincere the Dealer was being here, but we do know that he's picked up some experience reading and manipulating people, even if mostly secondhand. And I think that part of what he's doing here is misdirecting her in order to get her to focus on what's important right now.


Thankfully, my dreams were fading away.  They’d kept drifting among Boneyard, the hospital, and 99.  Screw suicide, I just wanted a bullet for my subconscious.

I think this may be a lead-in for the (unprincipled, hypocritical) memory-erasure of Scotch, and betrays a certain sympathy for the Goddess, even if she doesn't know it right now.


There were a number of faded posters in broken frames showing the various teams that’d played at the Arena: the Cloudsdale Skykickers, the Canterlot Cavaliers, the Fillydelphia Fillies, and the Appleloosa Pioneers were just a few of the teams that were intact.

I love that name especially, though it does lose a little impact when there hadn't ever really been a civil war for there to be a royalist side on.


“What are you talking about?”
“I… you… um…”  I took a half step back and thumped his chest again halfheartedly before giving a sheepish grin. “Ah… hi!  You’re not Big Daddy, are you?”

I know it's a heavily used trope, but it just works.


He nodded to my drink, and, not wanting to be thrown a second time, I levitated it to my mouth and took a sip of the glue-like beverage.  To my surprise and relief, I found it quite palatable.  A bit like wallpaper paste, really.

Wait—our protagonist is a literal paste-eater? Wow. I guess it's not too surprising, considering, but I forgot this. I suppose she could just be guessing about what wallpaper paste tastes and felt like, but given her appetites . . .


In a way, Big Daddy's Reaper plan is, out of the Six's, the one that most resembles reestablishing a government, since one of the defining characteristics of government is the monopoly of the legitimate use of violence. Or, I suppose, Crunchy Carrots and Awesome are similar in that respect, but with very different focuses, the former working withing her narrow-minded organization and the latter almost going more feudal than anything else.


A dozen Mint-al tins lay stacked neatly on the desk along with a few candy canes.  A bookcase held police procedurals and training manuals.  Another corner had three strange wooden masks and a weird curved stone statue that looked like molded rock.  She also had a lot of knives displayed on a wall, from rusty metal carvers to heavy mechanical rippers and even elegant single-edged swords.

Okay, we have Twist, the detective, Shujaa(?), and the Angel (probably?). Sadly, there doesn't appear to be a couch for Doctor Octopus.


Glory said as she dumped various foods and drinks into a blender.  I’d told her about his smoothie, and she’d been keen to see what she could make blend.

Okay, it's too early to tell, but if this ends here its still a subtle recurrence of the "Glory's disgusting cooking" running gag. Though I bet even she wouldn't incorporate adhesive paste. Not even after 34.

She poured some pickled eggs and Sparkle-Cola into the blender.

Okay, now it's fully there.


Then I felt hooves on my tail.  “Hey…” I started, but then looked back at P-21.  His blue eyes were… strange.  Bloodshot.  Tired.  Haunted.  He held my tail for only a few seconds, and then released it.  Looking at me, he swished his own tail.  What was he trying to tell me?

How can anyone be so sneaky that they're overlooked here? Ah, video game logic. Or, I guess, they saw him there, but didn't notice the plant, which works. I guess I just assumed they wouldn't want anyone near her at all.


“Good luck, Blackjack,” he said softly.  “I hope you get the answers you’re looking for.”  With that, he turned and started back into the crowd.

Not much of a better suicide note than hers was.


What I got was an earthenware jug.
“Well now.  Looks like the drinks are on the Pecos.  Unless I miss my guess, that’s some of Dusty Trails’ own grade A moonshine!”  Dealgood chuckled, “Personally, I’d rather have the power hoof, but beggars can’t be choosers.”

He doesn't know Blackjack. The real problem is that one probably isn't enough. And Psychoshy doesn't have testes.

Then she drew back her hind legs and smashed both of them right up into my reproductive organs.  Moonshine or no, I felt that!

Turnabout's fair play, I guess.


I bit hard on her ear, chewing like it was Rampage’s heart.

Well, it didn't take long to get to Mike Tyson territory.


And Big Daddy was watching.  Suddenly, I realized that it didn’t matter how much I stomped, he was going to keep this fight going.  I didn’t just have to win.  I had to win like a Reaper.  Like one of the top ten.  And that meant I’d have to put on a show.
“Psychoshy!  You’re under arrest for being a spoiled brat, a complete bitch, and for getting on my nerves!  I’m taking you down,” I yelled as I pointed my hoof at her.

I guess your mileage may vary, but I'd say it's here that we get to all-out pro-wrestling. Now if only she started using the third person . . .


“You have the right to remain silent!  Use it!”
That got a chuckle out of some of the crowd.  I grinned at them like I was having the time of my life.  “Anything you say can and will be used against you to kick your ass!”  I was still getting beat on, but there was less and less howling for my blood by the second.  “You have the right to speak to an attorney.  If you don’t have one, you can speak to my hoof!”

I'm now disappointed that the words "Mareanda Rights" has never been used.


I was transferred to projects making insecticide talismans.

I think this is the first trace of a hint, or one of them, about that connection with the Enervation, which in turn led to the Eater/Starmetal connection.


“If it were, Horizons would have-“

Ah, and here we have a hint that Horizons is something big, something that you couldn't help but notice, at least if you're in Hoofington. Still no real detail, though, and easily missed.


It more resembled a den than a room, with the walls smashed and kicked.

Heh, at first I thought "But a den is a room!"


Now, it's short, but the P-21 scene does a lot, fast. Probably the best part was the first paragraph in the room with him:
"He'd used a wire."
Separating it off from the rest amplifies the impact of this stark, simple sentence, and gives a little extra time to let the image hang in the mind, before it's even fully drawn.
The dialog, especially on P-21's side, is a big draw here, and of course reveals a real difference from what you might expect. And highlights just how similar the two of them are, even if it's not always on the surface.


My head ached and throbbed and I just sat there feeling... drained.  A plug had been pulled, and suddenly everything inside my head had been sucked away down the toilet.

Was this the first time she's had Mint-als, at least alone? They were never really a go-to drug for her.


“You’re just like her,” P-21 rasped softly.  No.  Nopony was like Rainbow Dash, but it was nice gesture.  It felt as though a little blue pegasus was gathering up all the gloomy clouds of stupid and clearing them from my mind.  In ten seconds flat, I felt better.

Irony off the charts right there. Though I'm a little skeptical of the effect it has on her, mentally: I'm pretty sure RD mapped to Agility, and I don't see why that would impact the Intelligence dump from coming down from the Mint-als.


Gorgon's letter got me. It does raise some questions, though, like why he seemed to ignore Jetstream rather than deal with it more directly, unless I'm forgetting that. Moreover, though, I wonder about why he agreed to work/keep working for Sanguine; it seems like he didn't particularly want to, and I don't remember what leverage Sanguine had over him. I guess it could be, like Deus, the painkiller drug.


“Okay... where did I miss the part about screams?  I found Enervation under ‘E’, but there wasn’t nothing about screams.”

A good way of slipping in the reference where it actually fits perfectly, in context.


Ah, Big Daddy's eyes, and the first mention of zebra curses. I wonder when we'll get to see Sanguine take him down; I think I'd remember if it'd already happened, but maybe not. Or it could be a false prophesy.


“And I’m getting older.  And I’d rather die from a knife in my back than from some stupid organ of mine failing.”
I looked at him, pity welling up for the old buck.

Yeah, said to the mare dying of super cancer. Which raises another question: why not just point out that in a few month's time, she'll be out of his hair anyway, if not sooner?


“So... what do you see when you look at me?” I asked with a touch of trepidation.
He stared at me for a long while.  My mane began to crawl as I swallowed.  I’d just about asked him to forget it when he said softly, “Blood and stars.”
“Blood of the innocent.  Blood of the guilty.  Fresh blood.  Cold blood.  Old blood.  You’re standing in a river of the stuff.  It’s flowing through you.  Gives you strength.  It’s also tearing you away and drowning you.  And for all the blood that’s soaking you through and through... it’s nothing compared to all the bloodshed you’re going to prevent.”  He sighed and shrugged.  “I also see stars above you... stars beneath you... stars within you.  You’re made of stars.  Bloody stars.”

Well, that gives some extra credence to his eyes being a real thing. The blood part's easy; the stars, less so.
Chapter Twenty Five (Mostly) Editing:
editing:
30: Professor liked to say that maybe a spirit o discord was floating around putting bottlecaps and trash in places to tease me.
Either "spirit of discord" or, unlikely, "spirit o' discord."

43: There were train tracks going down the middle, but it didn’t seem like any kind of rail tunnel I recognised.

"recognized"

“I was gonna say ‘In all of Equestria,’ but that might be gilding the lily.”

If the source isn't direct text, comma to outside of single-quotation marks.


Maybe they were like rotten loops of guts with…. ugh, stupid brain.

There should only be three dots.


“There was a sixth, but I dunno what happened to her. “

There shouldn't be a space between the period and the closing quotation mark.


“Where’s Glory again?” I said as I stood...well, lurched to my hooves.

Space needed after ellipsis.


I’ll… Ohhhh!  Idiot!

Either a second space is needed before "ohhh" or it shouldn't be capitalized.


"I'm sorry, I'm really sorry, but it's really important and I made a promise," I said with desperate hope.  Then was an eternity of silence as she considered, and then,
"Alright.  I'll trust you."  Be worthy of it this time, she didn't say.

You almost never do this, so it feels weird when you break a sentence over two paragraphs with anything other than ellipses or apoptosis-indicative dashes. What if you made the paragraph break after "desperate hope" instead?


just half an hour ago. To my surprise,

Only one space after the period.


He was going to bottle it all up and be a complete snit till it finally exploded.

A snit is an emotional state, not a person in it: "be in a complete snit."


with mature eyes. Where had I seen
Twilight Sparkle. Goldenblood.
burning yellow gas rolled between us. I struggled after
Only one space after the (first) period.


spaced apart from each other.   All of them flew flags

Three spaces after the period.


On the far side was a huge scoreboard covering in flickering neon lights that boldly declared “Hoofington Sports Arena” and, beneath that, “Home of the Hoofington Reapers.”

These should be single–quotation marks, and the period should probably be outside the second set.


“Yeah…about that; you all really wear ponyhide?”

Space needed after ellipsis.


collars and power shoes. “Over there,” she said, looking at the bonfire

Only one space after the period.


said as we headed up the stairs towards a sign that read ‘Box Seating A-H.’

Period probably to outside of marks.


more confused than ever. Wouldn’t that make the poster

Only one space after the period.


We reached a door marked ‘Manager,’

Comma to outside the marks.


That particular recipe I got from a zebra witchdoctor outside Trottingham.

"Witch doctor" is two words.


balanced on the end of his hoof. “Me, I took one look

Only one space after the period.


make the tribes behave and play nice was to have a gang so over the top badass that

"Over-the-top" should be hyphenated in this case.


There’s no way I could assist the Enclave, Glory.  Lighthooves-“

Second hyphen needed for dash.


ghoul’s defense if I shot him.   “So, what brings you

Three spaces after the period.


sort of poorly-implemented joke. “To be honest,

Only one space after the period.


But we’ve learned-- Hoofington learned.

Symmetrical spacing around dash.


“Fillies and gentlecolts… Boys and girls… Dyin’ time’s here!”

Second spaces needed after ellipses, or no capitalization following.


Die… and you’re done.” he said with a greasy grin

Period to comma.


I’d forfeit, let him have the PipBuck.  I needed-

Second hyphen for dash.


Worse, more than once she’d swoop in and clip me with a hoof.

"swooped in and clipped," assuming "she'd" is "she had," not "she would," which seems like an odd tense choice.


hoof from the Fillies. I saw a tan medical kit

Only one space after the period.


Unless I miss my guess, that’s some of Dusty Trails’ own grade A moonshine!”

"Trails's"


Ah, why couldn’t I have had that key?

Minor thing, but would this work better as "aw"?


“If it were, Horizons would have-“

Second hyphen for dash.


I raced to the one with Deus’ name

"Deus's"


After we’d put most of our tears behind us, he was cognisant enough to realize that I had rainbow goop splattered across my legs.

American spelling is "cognizant."


He pulled out a scrap of bedsheet and began to wipe it off; cleaning where it’d transferred on to him as well.

Semicolon => comma.


P-21 was trying to push me even further from it but I sat down hard and then slowly walked to the little table.

As physical distance, "farther" might be preferable here.


One picture showed Big Macintosh, Applesnack, Jetstream and Maripony together at a hoofball game,

Serial comma needed after "Jetstream."


‘Commendation of Valor for defense of a wounded comrade at Black Pony Mountain.’    A purple heart and

Four spaces after period and closing quotation mark.


Lets get back to our friends.

"Let's"


And it’s how I know the Reapers will be good in Brutus’ hooves when he does.

"Brutus's"


New Perk Added: Nerves of Steel- You now regenerate AP as if you were Rainbow Dash: 20% faster.
Quest Perk Added: Magic Penetration- Your magic bullet spell ignores 15 DT of armor.

Second hyphen for dashes, symmetrical spacing around them.


They’d kept drifiting among Boneyard, the hospital, and 99.

"drifting"
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Icy Shake
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:14 pm

nebulous wrote:I wonder how the Calamity is handled in Wastelander? Could be surface-born, but it would be oh so tempting to have a character from the Enclave to be a fish out of water. So maybe,

Calamity expy: Ah'right, ya have ta take this slow. This is a tricky maneuver, and a few ensigns have gotten their wings jammed tryin' and fell clear to the surface.
Cocky ensign: Hey, don't ruffle your feathers, I've got this covered!
*one saving of Cocky Ensign's life and a long fall later...*
(Calamity expy crash-lands into a pile of pegasus skeletons, hyperventilates as the surface's toxins and radiation attack his system, and passes out)
(Fade in from black)
CE: Wha... what happened?
Velvet Remedy expy: Well, featherbrain, you took a nasty fall, got sick, and despite having no immunities to surface diseases you managed to pull through. I'd have given it a one in ten million chance.
CE: But that's--that's more than the population o' the whole Enclave!
Deep, sexy voice from offscreen: So I guess you could say that...
(P-21 expy enters stage right, generating bishie sparkles like they're going out of style)
P-21 expy: ...you're a miracle.
(Calamity expy has a nosebleed.)

Though that still wouldn't explain Glory. Could have one of them be surface-born, I suppose. And the Wasteland would be little points of semi-functional society lost in a sea of raiderghoulmutants, with all the ponies who still have their equinity glad that at least the pegasi could live on like they did in the old days, and holding nothing against them since, after all, going to the surface for a pegasus would mean nearly instant death. No one ever mentions biohazard suits or anything of the kind.

Editing:
You guys weren’t any different from ponies.  Always looking for that one thing that would let you win.  That one advantage.  That one… whatever… that’d let you kill more ponies than zebras.  You used dragons.  We made Raptors.  We made power armor.  You make armor-piercing bullets.  We made megaspells.  You made balefire bombs.  We made Thunderheads.  You made Tempests.

[tense weirdness]

“Well, there’s no official record of how many or how powerful.  That’s all been lost.  Neighvarro claims they’re all either defunct, failures, scrap, or under their control depending on which pony you ask, but we did record one firing a while ago.  The beams were ten teraspark beams.  That’s strong enough to cut through a Raptor, or a dragon.  Ruffled quite a few feathers.”

[sounds awkward, maybe "The beams were ten terasparks each" or just the fragment "Ten teraspark beams"]

[And in chapter 54:]

He regarded me for a long moment.,“You seek to save the people of this cursed land?” he asked, gesturing towards the Core with a sweep of his hoof.

“It appears, Maiden, that we are at an impasse.  It is unfortunate that I cannot break you when you are at the peak of your destiny”

[Lacks a period. Also, shouldn't that be until you are at the peak of your destiny?
]

“No,” I replied.  Rampage arched a brow, and I amended, “No to the Dash.  No to fighting all of them.  I don’t want to risk all of you against him.

P-21 rolled his eyes, “And what makes you think we want to risk you against him on your own?”

[Needs an end quotation mark]

“You profaned your body with metal and machines to gain your strength, violating your very essence,”  He smiled,

[Either the comma at the end of his sentence should be a period or the h in the he should be lowercase]


Rampage turned it over in her hoofclaws.  “Woah, freaky.
Interesting ideas.

Ah, thank you. I believe that you are working from an out-of-date version of Chapter Sixty, though.

nebulous wrote:Also, shouldn't that be until you are at the peak of your destiny?
No, because she isn't at the moment.

Icy Shake wrote:Good luck with the move, Somber! And I hope the job works out.

Well, chapter twenty five was pretty big. I'd say the most important points were the reactions from Glory and P-21, but the introduction of the Reapers and some world building helped flesh it out, along with the goodbye from Gorgon. Sanguine doesn't come across as too interesting (looks cool, though), but Psychoshy is, of course, glorious, a ludicrously charismatic antagonist for all that she's an abrasive, unlikeable bitch. Not too much else to say, but Big Daddy's pretty cool, more for his philosophy, role, and prophesy than just as a snarky old badass, at least as far as I'm concerned.
Oh, and Blackjack's apparently eaten paste. Before becoming a cyberpony. Though I suppose that's not a huge surprise.

Chapter Twenty Five Running Thoughts:
“Sure.  She’s not worth my time anyway,” the mare said as she flicked her mane dismissively.  “Her blue buck is much more interesting!  See you later, Wahhhpage.”  With a snotty little giggle, she flew off through the store.

After such a long absence (departure with The Styg, not from chapter twenty four), it's easy to forget just how enjoyably nasty Psychoshy was, especially early on. Now, it's not the easiest thing to track exactly when everything happened, but I have a strong feeling that this was published after "The Return of Harmony," so she's probably channeling Flutterbitch pretty strongly. (Okay, it looks like to predate the start of season two, Somber would have had to average a chapter a week almost from the original publication date of Fallout: Equestria, which I don't think happened) Which is great; she was always my favorite of the Discorded ponies.


She looked over a few aisles to where Psychoshy was fluttering over a small crowd that seemed quite excited to meet the pretty pegasus psychopath.

I suppose it's inevitable that beauty would be an early characteristic of her that we would see.


I asked, then winced as something inside me squirmed.   Oh, I really hoped that it was supposed to do that.

Okay, so it looks like this chapter is where her failing body really starts to move from the background to the foreground. Makes sense, as the last major arc is almost wrapped up, with just the fallout left, and we need something else to take its place as a long-term conceit. Looking back, it's stunning to be reminded just how dense things were around this time, with big, key plot threads spawning and resolving rapidly even as the main action moves from place to place and focus to focus with each chapter.


“They split up.  Not really sure why,” Rampage said, giving me a significant look.  Probably because one of them ran off to do something foolish like killing themselves.  “After that, Awesome crowned himself King Awesome of Hoofington, Crunchy Carrots went back to Manehattan and came back with a whole slew of Steel Rangers, Keeper went his own way to set up the trade routes around the city, and the Professor established the Eggheads over at the university.”  She rubbed her chin.  “There was a sixth, but I dunno what happened to her. “

The start of the Hoofington Six, and so much more important, and personal, than I'd ever have guessed from the start, or even a fair way through.


Funny, but after riding a dragon and a pegasus, the drop to the floor of Megamart… was still enough to make my insides squirm.  Wasn’t I supposed to eventually get used to things like this?

I wish that were the case, but I still feel shocks of fear from edges and stairwells from time to time. It's not the crippling terror I had years ago, but some phobias never really go away.


Glory lay curled up as tightly as when I’d seen her trapped in that stove.  What an unbearable shit I am.  I didn’t deserve her, and she didn’t deserve this.

This is an apt and touching simile, that really drives home Glory's attachment and dependency regarding Blackjack. And while she doesn't deserve this, in fairness, neither does Blackjack; okay, maybe the pain of having hurt her friends, but certainly not the underlying self-hatred and hopelessness that led her to do so.


“You… you fiend!  You monster!  You creep!  You filly seducer!  You… you… bad pony!” Glory said as she thumped me over and over again.  The magic had left with the alicorn, and the Hoofington drizzle poured down on both of us.  “How could you do that to us?  How!  I’ll… Ohhhh!  Idiot!  Idiot!  Idiot!” she chanted over and over again as she kicked at me.  I put up only a halfhearted defense.

Now, this is an important reminder of the sheltered, enclosed existence Glory had before joining the Corps; the vocabulary is (or at least starts out) fairly high level, but even in the depths of her passionate ire almost seem like the laughably tame attacks of a child. And that's one of the key contrasts between the characters, for while until recently neither had really seen the real world outside of their protected homes, BJ had made the effort of growing socially (even if she was stymied by her role in security) while being an utter failure in mental and magical fields, where Glory is like a nicer, more friendly version of pre–season one Twilight, hugely focused on academic pursuits and socially stunted.


“I… we met with P-21… and he was crying… crying!  And you!  You were gone, and I was… I had nothing left, Blackjack.  No family.  No home!  No Blackjack!  Nothing!  Do you understand?  Nothing!”

How far she's come with him. And of course soon we'll see just to what an extent she was his foundation by this point.


“Why didn’t you just tell me?  Talk to me?” she asked softly.  “I would have helped you.  We all would have.”
“I didn’t want help.  I was stupid and cowardly.  I wanted to escape.  I can still smell the gas.  Right now, holding you, I can smell that chlorine.  I can hear Midnight calling me a murderer.”  I closed my eyes, a part of me trapped in 99 forever.  “I couldn’t live with it.  I couldn’t handle it.  I ran to either find something to keep me going... or… or end it.”
Glory trembled as she looked away.  “And… I wasn’t enough.”
“No.”  I turned her face back towards mine as I repeated softly, “No.  Glory, you weren’t ‘not enough’.  You were too much.  Too much good and wonderful that I didn’t deserve.  That I still don’t deserve,” I said as I closed my eyes.  “I wanted… needed… to punish myself.  I couldn’t do that with you with me.  I was falling apart and dead inside.”  I sighed as I stroked her wet mane.  “I should have turned to my friends.  Not away from them…”

I still think this is one of the saddest passages in the whole story. All the more so because it comes from both sides, each wishing desperately to have been different, Glory hearing that she coudn't be the reason Blackjack needed to hold on, and Blackjack deeply ashamed at her weakness, her self-hatred, and her cowardice.


. . . and Cuffs asked Glory if she needed some quality chain to keep me from getting away.  I flushed as Glory looked at me in consideration of her offer.

I didn't remember this starting so early. Though I suppose this does qualify as foreshadowing their reconciliation as romantic partners, to the extent it wasn't pretty probably anyway.


Trick pony… if it was anything like what  P-21… that had to be like getting fucked by a jerky stick!  

Okay, I know it's not in the source material, but Swicked's version of Psychoshy is just ungodly hilarious. I guess this is as good a place as anywhere to say that, and thank Somber for managing a character who is messed up is a way that's just much more fun than so many of the others; again, their problems are the core of what I love about the story, but occasional diversion is a good thing since otherwise everything can get so heavy.


I caught the change. The turn of a blue ear.  The slight widening of his eye followed by a slow sag of his body.  His teeth tightening on the handle of the plunger.  Eyes that refused to look away from Scotch Tape at work.

The body language here is very strong. The less obvious point is how well she can read him, given that he's spent most of his life hiding his feelings.


“All right… but make sure you wash?”  I wrinkled my nose.
She snorted in scorn.  “You spend a few weeks on the surface and get so soft you can’t even handle the smell of honest work.  Sad, Blackjack.  Really sad,” she said as she passed by me.
“I… you smell of poo water!  That’s not soft!” I yelled after her.  “I’ve had boats dropped on me.  You can’t survive that if you’re soft!  Hey!”  The door closed behind her and I pouted a little.  “I’m not soft…”

It's times like this I wonder how much Blackjack's character was modeled after Vash the Stampede. But really, the odd little places where Blackjack's ego shows up are a great source of humor, and a reminder that, in a way, despite being an unstoppable killing machine, at heart she really does belong in prewar/show-continuity Equestria, not here. See also: Octavia.


“You think that, if you can just die in some appropriately gruesome fashion, particularly if there’s lots of pain and suffering beforehand, that somehow you’ll save the Wasteland.”  He said ‘save’ with a vague smile and a wave of his hoof.

And here's one of the places where we really start to see that he's not her crazy; that's not what she thinks, and it's not why she wanted to kill herself. Even if she doesn't know it, or entirely believe it consciously.


Dealer's whole "self-centered" discussion with Blackjack is a little bit frustrating. In many ways, yes, Blackjack's outlook is very self-focused. Partly, I think that it's simple subconscious practicality, in that because really all she can control is herself. I still don't know how sincere the Dealer was being here, but we do know that he's picked up some experience reading and manipulating people, even if mostly secondhand. And I think that part of what he's doing here is misdirecting her in order to get her to focus on what's important right now.


Thankfully, my dreams were fading away.  They’d kept drifting among Boneyard, the hospital, and 99.  Screw suicide, I just wanted a bullet for my subconscious.

I think this may be a lead-in for the (unprincipled, hypocritical) memory-erasure of Scotch, and betrays a certain sympathy for the Goddess, even if she doesn't know it right now.


There were a number of faded posters in broken frames showing the various teams that’d played at the Arena: the Cloudsdale Skykickers, the Canterlot Cavaliers, the Fillydelphia Fillies, and the Appleloosa Pioneers were just a few of the teams that were intact.

I love that name especially, though it does lose a little impact when there hadn't ever really been a civil war for there to be a royalist side on.


“What are you talking about?”
“I… you… um…”  I took a half step back and thumped his chest again halfheartedly before giving a sheepish grin. “Ah… hi!  You’re not Big Daddy, are you?”

I know it's a heavily used trope, but it just works.


He nodded to my drink, and, not wanting to be thrown a second time, I levitated it to my mouth and took a sip of the glue-like beverage.  To my surprise and relief, I found it quite palatable.  A bit like wallpaper paste, really.

Wait—our protagonist is a literal paste-eater? Wow. I guess it's not too surprising, considering, but I forgot this. I suppose she could just be guessing about what wallpaper paste tastes and felt like, but given her appetites . . .


In a way, Big Daddy's Reaper plan is, out of the Six's, the one that most resembles reestablishing a government, since one of the defining characteristics of government is the monopoly of the legitimate use of violence. Or, I suppose, Crunchy Carrots and Awesome are similar in that respect, but with very different focuses, the former working withing her narrow-minded organization and the latter almost going more feudal than anything else.


A dozen Mint-al tins lay stacked neatly on the desk along with a few candy canes.  A bookcase held police procedurals and training manuals.  Another corner had three strange wooden masks and a weird curved stone statue that looked like molded rock.  She also had a lot of knives displayed on a wall, from rusty metal carvers to heavy mechanical rippers and even elegant single-edged swords.

Okay, we have Twist, the detective, Shujaa(?), and the Angel (probably?). Sadly, there doesn't appear to be a couch for Doctor Octopus.


Glory said as she dumped various foods and drinks into a blender.  I’d told her about his smoothie, and she’d been keen to see what she could make blend.

Okay, it's too early to tell, but if this ends here its still a subtle recurrence of the "Glory's disgusting cooking" running gag. Though I bet even she wouldn't incorporate adhesive paste. Not even after 34.

She poured some pickled eggs and Sparkle-Cola into the blender.

Okay, now it's fully there.


Then I felt hooves on my tail.  “Hey…” I started, but then looked back at P-21.  His blue eyes were… strange.  Bloodshot.  Tired.  Haunted.  He held my tail for only a few seconds, and then released it.  Looking at me, he swished his own tail.  What was he trying to tell me?

How can anyone be so sneaky that they're overlooked here? Ah, video game logic. Or, I guess, they saw him there, but didn't notice the plant, which works. I guess I just assumed they wouldn't want anyone near her at all.


“Good luck, Blackjack,” he said softly.  “I hope you get the answers you’re looking for.”  With that, he turned and started back into the crowd.

Not much of a better suicide note than hers was.


What I got was an earthenware jug.
“Well now.  Looks like the drinks are on the Pecos.  Unless I miss my guess, that’s some of Dusty Trails’ own grade A moonshine!”  Dealgood chuckled, “Personally, I’d rather have the power hoof, but beggars can’t be choosers.”

He doesn't know Blackjack. The real problem is that one probably isn't enough. And Psychoshy doesn't have testes.

Then she drew back her hind legs and smashed both of them right up into my reproductive organs.  Moonshine or no, I felt that!

Turnabout's fair play, I guess.


I bit hard on her ear, chewing like it was Rampage’s heart.

Well, it didn't take long to get to Mike Tyson territory.


And Big Daddy was watching.  Suddenly, I realized that it didn’t matter how much I stomped, he was going to keep this fight going.  I didn’t just have to win.  I had to win like a Reaper.  Like one of the top ten.  And that meant I’d have to put on a show.
“Psychoshy!  You’re under arrest for being a spoiled brat, a complete bitch, and for getting on my nerves!  I’m taking you down,” I yelled as I pointed my hoof at her.

I guess your mileage may vary, but I'd say it's here that we get to all-out pro-wrestling. Now if only she started using the third person . . .


“You have the right to remain silent!  Use it!”
That got a chuckle out of some of the crowd.  I grinned at them like I was having the time of my life.  “Anything you say can and will be used against you to kick your ass!”  I was still getting beat on, but there was less and less howling for my blood by the second.  “You have the right to speak to an attorney.  If you don’t have one, you can speak to my hoof!”

I'm now disappointed that the words "Mareanda Rights" has never been used.


I was transferred to projects making insecticide talismans.

I think this is the first trace of a hint, or one of them, about that connection with the Enervation, which in turn led to the Eater/Starmetal connection.


“If it were, Horizons would have-“

Ah, and here we have a hint that Horizons is something big, something that you couldn't help but notice, at least if you're in Hoofington. Still no real detail, though, and easily missed.


It more resembled a den than a room, with the walls smashed and kicked.

Heh, at first I thought "But a den is a room!"


Now, it's short, but the P-21 scene does a lot, fast. Probably the best part was the first paragraph in the room with him:
"He'd used a wire."
Separating it off from the rest amplifies the impact of this stark, simple sentence, and gives a little extra time to let the image hang in the mind, before it's even fully drawn.
The dialog, especially on P-21's side, is a big draw here, and of course reveals a real difference from what you might expect. And highlights just how similar the two of them are, even if it's not always on the surface.


My head ached and throbbed and I just sat there feeling... drained.  A plug had been pulled, and suddenly everything inside my head had been sucked away down the toilet.

Was this the first time she's had Mint-als, at least alone? They were never really a go-to drug for her.


“You’re just like her,” P-21 rasped softly.  No.  Nopony was like Rainbow Dash, but it was nice gesture.  It felt as though a little blue pegasus was gathering up all the gloomy clouds of stupid and clearing them from my mind.  In ten seconds flat, I felt better.

Irony off the charts right there. Though I'm a little skeptical of the effect it has on her, mentally: I'm pretty sure RD mapped to Agility, and I don't see why that would impact the Intelligence dump from coming down from the Mint-als.


Gorgon's letter got me. It does raise some questions, though, like why he seemed to ignore Jetstream rather than deal with it more directly, unless I'm forgetting that. Moreover, though, I wonder about why he agreed to work/keep working for Sanguine; it seems like he didn't particularly want to, and I don't remember what leverage Sanguine had over him. I guess it could be, like Deus, the painkiller drug.


“Okay... where did I miss the part about screams?  I found Enervation under ‘E’, but there wasn’t nothing about screams.”

A good way of slipping in the reference where it actually fits perfectly, in context.


Ah, Big Daddy's eyes, and the first mention of zebra curses. I wonder when we'll get to see Sanguine take him down; I think I'd remember if it'd already happened, but maybe not. Or it could be a false prophesy.


“And I’m getting older.  And I’d rather die from a knife in my back than from some stupid organ of mine failing.”
I looked at him, pity welling up for the old buck.

Yeah, said to the mare dying of super cancer. Which raises another question: why not just point out that in a few month's time, she'll be out of his hair anyway, if not sooner?


“So... what do you see when you look at me?” I asked with a touch of trepidation.
He stared at me for a long while.  My mane began to crawl as I swallowed.  I’d just about asked him to forget it when he said softly, “Blood and stars.”
“Blood of the innocent.  Blood of the guilty.  Fresh blood.  Cold blood.  Old blood.  You’re standing in a river of the stuff.  It’s flowing through you.  Gives you strength.  It’s also tearing you away and drowning you.  And for all the blood that’s soaking you through and through... it’s nothing compared to all the bloodshed you’re going to prevent.”  He sighed and shrugged.  “I also see stars above you... stars beneath you... stars within you.  You’re made of stars.  Bloody stars.”

Well, that gives some extra credence to his eyes being a real thing. The blood part's easy; the stars, less so.
Chapter Twenty Five (Mostly) Editing:
editing:
30: Professor liked to say that maybe a spirit o discord was floating around putting bottlecaps and trash in places to tease me.
Either "spirit of discord" or, unlikely, "spirit o' discord."

43: There were train tracks going down the middle, but it didn’t seem like any kind of rail tunnel I recognised.

"recognized"

“I was gonna say ‘In all of Equestria,’ but that might be gilding the lily.”

If the source isn't direct text, comma to outside of single-quotation marks.


Maybe they were like rotten loops of guts with…. ugh, stupid brain.

There should only be three dots.


“There was a sixth, but I dunno what happened to her. “

There shouldn't be a space between the period and the closing quotation mark.


“Where’s Glory again?” I said as I stood...well, lurched to my hooves.

Space needed after ellipsis.


I’ll… Ohhhh!  Idiot!

Either a second space is needed before "ohhh" or it shouldn't be capitalized.


"I'm sorry, I'm really sorry, but it's really important and I made a promise," I said with desperate hope.  Then was an eternity of silence as she considered, and then,
"Alright.  I'll trust you."  Be worthy of it this time, she didn't say.

You almost never do this, so it feels weird when you break a sentence over two paragraphs with anything other than ellipses or apoptosis-indicative dashes. What if you made the paragraph break after "desperate hope" instead?


just half an hour ago. To my surprise,

Only one space after the period.


He was going to bottle it all up and be a complete snit till it finally exploded.

A snit is an emotional state, not a person in it: "be in a complete snit."


with mature eyes. Where had I seen
Twilight Sparkle. Goldenblood.
burning yellow gas rolled between us. I struggled after
Only one space after the (first) period.


spaced apart from each other.   All of them flew flags

Three spaces after the period.


On the far side was a huge scoreboard covering in flickering neon lights that boldly declared “Hoofington Sports Arena” and, beneath that, “Home of the Hoofington Reapers.”

These should be single–quotation marks, and the period should probably be outside the second set.


“Yeah…about that; you all really wear ponyhide?”

Space needed after ellipsis.


collars and power shoes. “Over there,” she said, looking at the bonfire

Only one space after the period.


said as we headed up the stairs towards a sign that read ‘Box Seating A-H.’

Period probably to outside of marks.


more confused than ever. Wouldn’t that make the poster

Only one space after the period.


We reached a door marked ‘Manager,’

Comma to outside the marks.


That particular recipe I got from a zebra witchdoctor outside Trottingham.

"Witch doctor" is two words.


balanced on the end of his hoof. “Me, I took one look

Only one space after the period.


make the tribes behave and play nice was to have a gang so over the top badass that

"Over-the-top" should be hyphenated in this case.


There’s no way I could assist the Enclave, Glory.  Lighthooves-“

Second hyphen needed for dash.


ghoul’s defense if I shot him.   “So, what brings you

Three spaces after the period.


sort of poorly-implemented joke. “To be honest,

Only one space after the period.


But we’ve learned-- Hoofington learned.

Symmetrical spacing around dash.


“Fillies and gentlecolts… Boys and girls… Dyin’ time’s here!”

Second spaces needed after ellipses, or no capitalization following.


Die… and you’re done.” he said with a greasy grin

Period to comma.


I’d forfeit, let him have the PipBuck.  I needed-

Second hyphen for dash.


Worse, more than once she’d swoop in and clip me with a hoof.

"swooped in and clipped," assuming "she'd" is "she had," not "she would," which seems like an odd tense choice.


hoof from the Fillies. I saw a tan medical kit

Only one space after the period.


Unless I miss my guess, that’s some of Dusty Trails’ own grade A moonshine!”

"Trails's"


Ah, why couldn’t I have had that key?

Minor thing, but would this work better as "aw"?


“If it were, Horizons would have-“

Second hyphen for dash.


I raced to the one with Deus’ name

"Deus's"


After we’d put most of our tears behind us, he was cognisant enough to realize that I had rainbow goop splattered across my legs.

American spelling is "cognizant."


He pulled out a scrap of bedsheet and began to wipe it off; cleaning where it’d transferred on to him as well.

Semicolon => comma.


P-21 was trying to push me even further from it but I sat down hard and then slowly walked to the little table.

As physical distance, "farther" might be preferable here.


One picture showed Big Macintosh, Applesnack, Jetstream and Maripony together at a hoofball game,

Serial comma needed after "Jetstream."


‘Commendation of Valor for defense of a wounded comrade at Black Pony Mountain.’    A purple heart and

Four spaces after period and closing quotation mark.


Lets get back to our friends.

"Let's"


And it’s how I know the Reapers will be good in Brutus’ hooves when he does.

"Brutus's"


New Perk Added: Nerves of Steel- You now regenerate AP as if you were Rainbow Dash: 20% faster.
Quest Perk Added: Magic Penetration- Your magic bullet spell ignores 15 DT of armor.

Second hyphen for dashes, symmetrical spacing around them.


They’d kept drifiting among Boneyard, the hospital, and 99.

"drifting"
Ah, thank you very much as always.

Icy Shake wrote:"Witch doctor" is two words.
Hm, as far as I can tell, it being one word also appears to be a valid usage.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by SilentCarto on Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:21 pm

Scienza wrote:Though, as with all things alicorny, Cadance ruins everything again, since she's visibly seen aging...
Not necessarily. "Immortal" doesn't automatically mean they stop aging immediately and remain a teenager forever. The growth from child to adult and the onset of senescence are two entirely different, disconnected biological processes, not the sweep of a needle around the same clock face.

Anyway, if Celestia and Luna started out as regular unicorns, that implies that they grew into their current stature over time. Luna herself recovered several inches between S1E2 and S2E4. So it's not unthinkable that Cadence grew a few inches in the years since Twilight's childhood as a function of her increasing powers.

swicked wrote:...weren't they called unicorns in that first storybook portion of the show's pilot?
No. It said that the elder sister used her "unicorn powers" to raise the sun at dawn, yadda yadda. They were just establishing that magic is a unicorn thing. It doesn't imply that she doesn't also have pegasus powers and earth pony powers.

Scienza wrote:I see Celestia as being the element of Laughter and Luna being that of magic.
That's my headcanon. I tend to give Celestia the "softer", more social elements of Laughter, Generosity, and Kindness, while Luna had the more abrasive, personal elements of Loyalty, Honesty, and Magic.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by cb5 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:21 am

SilentCarto wrote:
Scienza wrote:Though, as with all things alicorny, Cadance ruins everything again, since she's visibly seen aging...
Not necessarily. "Immortal" doesn't automatically mean they stop aging immediately and remain a teenager forever. The growth from child to adult and the onset of senescence are two entirely different, disconnected biological processes, not the sweep of a needle around the same clock face.

Anyway, if Celestia and Luna started out as regular unicorns, that implies that they grew into their current stature over time. Luna herself recovered several inches between S1E2 and S2E4. So it's not unthinkable that Cadence grew a few inches in the years since Twilight's childhood as a function of her increasing powers.
Nah canon ruins fanon everything.  Celestia, Luna, Cadance, Twilight aren't immortal and it's not canon that they're immortal.  Alicorns are just long living.  Alicorns being immortal was a fanon thing that people for the longest time thought was canon, but got shot down by word of faust herself.

The FoE subniche of the mlp fandom is the only one that I know of that gives a care about canon though.  I just write it off as a "parallel universe" and call it done.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake on Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:38 am

On "witchdoctor": okay; I guess I missed that. In any case, there's an instance of "witch doctor" as two words in chapter thirty four, so you might as well harmonize them, one way or the other.

And cb5, I'm surprised you'd think that or that people would have that reaction. I thought it was hopelessly broken from show-continuity by the end of the second season, and on reflection even before. Sure, there are ways to incorporate the changes, but as they pile up, it seems like it makes more sense to just pick and choose what you think works.


Also got through twenty six tonight (split up, though, by the Karaoke Night, which was a ton of fun), but for whatever reason I don't have as much to say about it. There's plenty going on, and in the beginning to middle there are even the more slow-moving emotional and relationship parts that get me talking. The P-21/Priest stuff is solid, though I can't help but think that what Priest said about being unable to refuse Arloste because she was broken and inconsolable (and older and more powerful, true), similarly applies to P-21, though I guess it's undermined by the fact that Priest was the one making the move. The bed wetting was something of a highlight for me, and was key in setting up Scotch's break and arc resulting from the underground, as well as establishing the protectiveness Blackjack feels toward her, going beyond just her life to her happiness and her esteem in the eyes of her friends. It's not exactly the biggest thing, but I do think it's important we see from time to time that this Security saves more than ponies' lives. We had a scene with Octavia, which may have included new info on soul jars (though we don't know that's what she is yet) in Blackjack's feeling that holding her felt like hugging a pony. Oh! And we get the starmetal sword, which is almost like a character itself, and fun times with Lance and company.

Underground, there's great atmosphere and some great action, but the real magic is in the slow grinding down of everyone, including the reader. More than most chapters, this just exudes a feeling of inevitability. Much like the passage over Caradhras, or possibly the climb up Mount Doom, this made the simple act of walking really feel like a heroic effort, and the most important thing in the world. There were some good character scenes down there, but the nature of the plot's progression at the time required that they be resolved quickly, basically with pep-talks. But there will be more time to sort things out later.

Lastly: jelly legs. We're now fully in the long sweep of Blackjack just deteriorating physically like she had been emotionally over the last several chapters, and I'm looking forward to it continuing because I remember it just giving the whole time a real sense of hope in the face of the unstoppable enemy that is Blackjack's own body. I just hope that it doesn't lose its effectiveness when I know that there's an after.

Okay, maybe I did manage to write something down, after all.

Chapter Twenty Six Running Thoughts:
He dug through pile after pile while I looked at strange arcane plans and blueprints on his wall.
Luna Dam Power Generator Assembly #4.  Fort Pony Annex.  Samophlange housing.“Why do you keep these?” I asked, trying to figure out what the Tokomare was supposed to be.

No context yet, but we're seeing the first bits of the Tokomare.


As I left, I heard Rover mutter softly to himself, “Just like Golden Pony.”

I wonder if we'll ever really know just how sincere Goldenblood was; over time, I've come to assume that he really was trying to help, and kind of foiled by something like a Cassandra curse. But whom did he want to help? In this case, at least, I figure he probably did want to return the Sand Dogs to their home, but couldn't find a way, and everything blew up before he got the chance. But the comparison of BJ to GB—and if I recall correctly, Rover was there (that or they have a really strong oral tradition)—makes you think, because Blackjack is almost invariably, deeply sincere in her desire to make things better for everyone.


The last time I was here, I was a bit too drunk to remember exactly how trashed we’d left the building.  After two battles, mine and whatever had happened two centuries ago, the museum was definitely looking a bit worse for wear.

I think she's going to get the Starmetal Sword this chapter! Yes! Along with Duty & Sacrifice, one of my favorite weapons of hers.


More ominous, though, was an... egg shaped, pulsating, multicolored glowing something strapped to the pile.

I think this is our introduction to balefire eggs. Fffuuuuuuu . . .


while her comrade kept sniping at the weaving and beaming Glory.

"Weaving and beaming" is a nice, very euphonious, description.


Worse, her shield was protecting her from the snipers, but zebra hooves seemed quite capable of passing through it.

I had forgotten this. I wonder if it's a product of their martial arts and strength, or if it's just part of the zebra's weirdness with respect to the alicorns.


Then he blinked and reached into his pouch, drawing out a weapon that made my heart quiver.  The sword was a thing of beauty.  Deadly art.  As my magic lifted it, I immediately wanted to try it out on those zebra hoof to hoof specialists.  Hell, I wanted to go back to the Arena and give Psychoshy a rematch!

I think that the timing within this description is key. It's as she lifts it, making magical contact, that the desire comes. And though she's had appreciation for melee weapons, especially the claw, she never liked them like she did guns (and remember, just the sight of them in print is enough to get her going), and though she hates Psychoshy, this seems a little bloodthirsty for her, at least normally. So I think that the metal's effect is already starting, even if there was no reason to read in to this at the time.


There was a light on the floor right in front of me.  A light on a small tin.  I put a hoof on the disarm button and took another cautious step.
Then he shot the mine.

Yeah, not the smartest move, there. Hope you learn something for next time.


“She was correct.  The stars have power for any pony who dares.”  He chuckled darkly, obviously relieved to hear of her passing.  “Clearly, they work though you.  You guided me to my target.  And you are here now when we discovered that the bones once lay here.”  

Okay, there are some dubious leaps of logic here, but he hasn't said the "M" word yet.


Instantly, the world was reduced to a single ringing ‘squee’ as my left ear exploded in pain.

Damn it Lancer, that can leave you with constant, permanent tinnitus!


Ah well, have horn, will disarm!  I smacked the tab on the first mine with my magic and stepped forward to pick it up.  Then, without warning the mine exploded in my face!

Nope, I guess you learned nothing. Applejack would be proud.


“We were scouting a zebra encampment south of Brimstone’s Fall… We were… ambushed.  Wounded.  Twist…”  She blinked in shock.  She froze as she stared into my eyes.  “Is this a dream?”
“I don’t know,” I replied softly.  “What about Twist?”
“No!” she said sharply as she backed away.  She looked around in a panic.  “Twist!  Where is… she… Twist!”  She screamed in shock and started to babble in zebra talk.  I didn’t know if she was going to attack, cry, or run.

I don't think I'd handle remembering that very well, either.


“Blackjack!” Glory said in horror as I waited for Rampage’s brains to regenerate.  “You don’t do therapy with bullets!”

But that's the best therapy!


We told them that fallen stars only sleep within the earth, not lie there dead, and that which sleeps may dream.

Missed this first time around: not enough Lovecraft exposure at the time.


Yes, P-21 and… oh… my…

/George Takei.


I’m not her.  I’m no hero trotting around the Wasteland.  I don’t even like most other ponies.  Sometimes, I feel like I hate everypony in the world.  Especially her.”  He pressed his face into Priest’s neck.  “Especially me.”

Well, let's check these off: she doesn't thinks she's a hero; there are some ponies she doesn't like, but I'll give you this one; she hates herself, too, but maybe not as much as you do; at least she doesn't hate you.


I dashed back as silently as a zebra, poking my head around the corner to peek at the pair again.  

Man, I just know they're going to catch her. And it won't be pretty. Probably funny, though.

Or maybe not. It's crazy how much Blackjack hurts all her friends, without meaning to. The suicide, obviously, but that's far from the only time something like that's gone on, and Glory's in a constant state of worry. P-21 can't even be around her, and Scotch can't stop thinking about 99 and how Blackjack was the one who killed them, Rampage has her disappointments in BJ. All that's left is Lacunae, and she was so hurt to begin with, it's hard to imagine more.


I was sure of it as our four notes blended together into one whole.  The contrabass hit the eight notes with regularity, providing the foundation for the other three.  Harmony.  It might not be Honesty, Kindness, Laughter, Generosity, or Loyalty, but as sure as the stars in the sky and overhead, it was Magic.

I love it when Octavia gets to play. To think of what happened to her, and how she had done so little and saw such a fate . . . And the end of this section was beautiful, even if it's also cheesy.


I’d given Glory a grin, but her face mirrored Midnight’s to an unnerving degree as she trotted to her own room with Medley.

Seriously, the fuck, Blackjack? You just said you'd give her time, give her space, and now this?


The bed-wetting scene is, of course, touching and some of the best development Scotch has had to date. Incidentally, setting it up with the earlier instance at the stadium was a good call, and Blackjack covering for Scotch was something I remembered even though I last read this chapter over a year ago.


P-21 laughed as he popped open Persuasion and loaded a new grenade.  “Oh, this is very therapeutic.”

Sure, they aren't bullets, but what did I say earlier?


Looking at the figurine one last time, the giant mechanical beast turned and stalked back the way it had come.  One by one, the remaining cyberdogs rose and trotted after it on softly clicking claws.

Kind of a repetition of Silver Spoon, but it still works, and there're long gaps between that, this, and then that again. (And don't think you're off the hook for that second time, Blackjack! I haven't forgotten!)


It might have been a unicorn once, but its flesh had melted away and left only the glowing skeleton.  Its tattered and burned uniform still hung on its brilliantly glowing bones; a nimbus of glaring white light was emanating from the skeletal remains.  They didn’t walk so much as hover silently over the ground as the light flickered around and through them.  They looked more like milky crystal than bone.  The...thing looked right at me as the green glow within its sockets flared.

This is a very evocative description. It contrasts well with the more generalized eerieness of the tunnel as a whole.


“Mass mind control… yay.”
Glory gave a wan smile.  “Better than killing them all, right?”  I wasn’t exactly sure about that.  

And involuntary memory erasure is just so much better, huh? Grumble.


Then I heard the faintest whirr.  For a moment, I thought it was just a fan of some sort working, but then a sharp-eyed pink party pony poked my brain and pointed out a camera no bigger than an apple set in the corner.  And as I moved towards the exit, it tracked to follow me.
Somehow, I doubted that it was Spike…

Great atmospheric development, continuing to add little vague menaces all the time in addition to the intersperced impulses of real, direct violence.


I felt an unnerving sensation of being drawn into the hole, despite the fact that the breeze blew out from it.

Oh, don't worry; that's just the vertigo. I'm sure it has nothing to do with tension pulling on your soul.


In reply, I slammed the bullet into Folly and clacked it closed.  Instantly, the cables tightened, the lightning coursing along them burning me through my barding.  “DIE!” it screamed through a thousand electrical mouths.
“You first,” I gasped.

Simple, but then some of the best action one-liners are.


I forced myself to keep smiling.  And step.  Step.  Step.  In the only direction we could.

Ah, the preponderance of short words works great here, keeping the sentences as simple and clean as the inevitability the party faces. And again, it seems like many chapters have a powerful line that sums up huge tracts of the story, and I think that this is the one for this chapter.


She moved like a zombie as we continued down.

Considering that the zombies of this setting are fast zombies, I'm not sure this is the best simile.


Step by step.  I walked forward between the smashed and crumbling buildings.
           
A tiny mote drifted across my horn.

I forgot that there were memory motes here!


She looked at it lying there beside her.  She slowly picked it up and held it in her hooves.  “It fell off…” she said with a whimper, like a foal who’s favorite toy had broken.  She started to shake, at first with tears… but then she threw back her head, laughing hysterically.  “It fell off!  It FELL the fuck off!”  And with bloody tears she laughed and sobbed at the same time.  “We’re going to die!  We’re going to die!  Please let us fucking die!”

It's too bad that there isn't really the time to expand this; while it's a good transition, and the emotion works coming from her, a slower build would have been nice. But again, they have to keep walking, and that places some limits.


Rampage collapsed, her body shaking and muttering.  The tiny motes seemed to be drawn to her, slipping in and out of her tiny striped body.  With each one, her cutie mark flashed… a bird… a bike… two horns…  I reached down and bit her mane and started to drag her further between the ruins.

Ah, a nice tip that whatever make Rampage Rampage may not be entirely of herself. The fact it's related to memories, of course, was already crystal.


Rarity stood facing me, and I knew that rasp.  “I know what you have, Rarity.  I know where you got it.  And I know what it is.”  I felt my lips curl in a thin smile.  “And I know what you’re doing with it in Hightower.”

Why are Goldenblood's memories here? I may need to look in to the later chapter and see if that has hints about how those work; I'm afraid I forget at the moment. Also, this links Rarity, if indirectly, to the idea of shadiness, what with Horse earlier talking about doing tests on Hightower prisoners.


“Is this when the Wasteland breaks you?”
“I… I can’t…” I gasped, feeling lightheaded from all the blood I was losing.  This was it.  This was when the Wasteland killed us.

This, and what follows, feel like I'm wading through cold, chest-high mud, and scarcely able to breathe. I think that the last 3/4 page of this chapter is a shining example of the concept of a Pyhrric victory on a personal level.
Chapter Twenty Six (Mostly) Editing:
swept out the snipers nests in the windows of the crumbling apartment buildings.

There should be an apostrophe in "snipers," but I'm not sure if it should be before or after the s.


“Well...I hope you feel better soon.”

Space needed after ellipsis.


Ah… Yes.

Second space after ellipsis or no capitalization of "yes."


Then again, if there was power, why not?   I wondered if, if those

Three spaces after question mark.


“This way, Snarky Mc Snarkerson!”

I guess this is fine, but having the "Mc" separate looks weird.


was shrouded enough to lower my hit chance to zero.   I dropped out of the spell and fired at the faint blur
Screw sense and reason.   I leapt and slid on my

Three spaces after period.


of the shuttered windows. “Go

Only one space after the period.


Sekashi said-“

Second hyphen for dash.


the museum.   I cringed at the sight of mothers and
appeared in the doorway.   Without hesitation, she raised

Three spaces after the period.


south of Brimstone’s Fall… We were

Another space after the ellipsis, or don't capitalize "We."


After all somepony’s going to have to pick the lock and let her back in.

Comma after "all."


There is a funny story I know:  Once upon a time there was a young zebra who was a member of the Remnant.

Odd case, so maybe it works as an exception, but normally you only have one space and no capitalization after colons.


towards healing hatred is admitting it. Get it out of
I’d dealt with far worse. She didn’t

Only one space after the period.


If only I had Taurus’ rifle… I could claim it was an accident.

"Taurus's"


‘Hoofington Industrial Access Tunnel #1.  Restricted Area.’  Beneath that: ‘Protected by Aegis Securities’.

Given the first two, I'd say the third should likewise have the period inside the marks.


Nothing on my E.F.S.

Suggest the switch to EFS.


P-21 was trying to use the heavy barrel of the grenade launcher as a bludgeon, his shoulders bleeding from clawed lacerations.

Maybe claw lacerations, since they are lacerations from claws, not lacerations with claws?


It’s heavy metal claws scraped at the stone as it walked to the fallen Ministry Mare figurines;

"Its"


“I...” Was that...

I think there should be a second space after the first ellipsis.


On the other side, there was a drop to the "floor", but there was enough congealed molten ruin for us to scramble down.

These should be single-quotes.


Okay. Definitely going to take a

Only one space after the period.


Lets look for a way out while he works.

"Let's"


It was another mostly-intact monitoring room, this one lit with a strange, sharp arclight glow.

I think "arclight" is two words, but it is used combined for the names of some companies and such. Also, only one space after the period.


they were moving. And what a coincidence, the

Only one space after the period.


The...thing looked right at me as the green glow within its sockets flared.

Space after ellipsis.


and swept across the passage. It had absolutely no effect on t

Only one space after the period.


I lunged to the side, feeling the broken shards digging into my flesh as another distortion beam sliced vertically past me.

She doesn't know what these things are, or what the beams are. It seems weird for her to come up with that on the spot, especially since it's kind of abstract compared to something like "bone-shattering."


I saw the hesitation on her face. “What is it?”
“I… Our healing potions aren’t much good down here. I don’t think…”

Only one space after the period, second space also needed after the first ellipsis.


To the east and south were all kinds of other names, few that I recognized.

Possible "but" after the comma?


Good. Let’s get the others.”

Only one space after the period.


All of us looked tired, despite the fact we hadn’t have much of a hard trip in the tunnels.

"hadn't had"


Once more, strange arcane marks appeared on my E.F.S. as the weapon interfaced with my PipBuck.

Suggest the switch to "EFS."


“Memories…  they’re memories...” I said as I looked back at my friends.

Should only have one space after the first ellipsis.


in the garden-atrium of the Fluttershy Clinic. But there was fear in her

Only one space after the period.


but it was hardly the only one of it’s kind,” he said with a sure smile.

"its kind"


You do that…  and I will forget about just what you have.”

Should just have one space after ellipsis.


New perk added: Forged in the Hoof- You’ve sucked up more Enervation

Second hyphen for dash, symmetrical spacing around it.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by cb5 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:46 am

Icy Shake wrote:On "witchdoctor": okay; I guess I missed that. In any case, there's an instance of "witch doctor" as two words in chapter thirty four, so you might as well harmonize them, one way or the other.

And cb5, I'm surprised you'd think that or that people would have that reaction. I thought it was hopelessly broken from show-continuity by the end of the second season, and on reflection even before. Sure, there are ways to incorporate the changes, but as they pile up, it seems like it makes more sense to just pick and choose what you think works.
There are still people that try to retcon canon into their fics. I'm not talking like little things, I'm talking like Discord's return level things.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds on Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:34 am

Icy Shake wrote:On "witchdoctor": okay; I guess I missed that. In any case, there's an instance of "witch doctor" as two words in chapter thirty four, so you might as well harmonize them, one way or the other.
Oh, thank you.

Icy Shake wrote:Okay, maybe I did manage to write something down, after all.
Ah, thank you very much as always.

cb5 wrote:There are still people that try to retcon canon into their fics. I'm not talking like little things, I'm talking like Discord's return level things.
Seriously? …Well, I guess that their perseverance in the face of adversity is commendable...
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by FeatherDust on Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:52 am

stringtheory wrote:>>Twilicorn
I'm in the camp of 'should've waited a couple more seasons' personally.
My understanding is that MMC was originally conceived as a show-closer because they weren't sure if they were getting a season 4.  The half-length S3 makes up the total 65 episodes necessary to take the show to syndication and there was, at some point in the process, a real question of whether there WOULD be any more.  Once they did get the green light for S4, MMC got reworked to be less of a final ending, but that's why they chose to do Twilicorn now rather than later.

Somber wrote:My headcanon for Celestia and Luna are that during the age of Discord, Unicorns, Pegasi, and Earth ponies didn't like each other.  Celestia was born a unicorn, and Luna a Pegasus, and they learned to overcome their differences and were the first to discover the elements of Harmony.  I also headcanon Celestia having an older sister who was an Earth Pony before she became a princess, but disliked how Celestia treated Luna and broke up with her sister after Nightmare Moon was banished.
Wait, so are you theorizing that Celly and Luna aren't actual siblings, or that one of them is a throwback?

cb5 wrote:Celestia, Luna, Cadance, Twilight aren't immortal and it's not canon that they're immortal.  Alicorns are just long living.  Alicorns being immortal was a fanon thing that people for the longest time thought was canon, but got shot down by word of faust herself.
You got a quote for that?  I never heard any such thing and I keep up pretty well with official statements...

Though I will say it's important to distinguish between different kinds of immortal.  There's "unharmable", like the Highlander immortals, who can't be killed except in specific ways.  Then there's "ageless" like the elves in LotR, who can live forever if left unmolested but are just as vulnerable to violent death as anyone else (disease immunity is optional).  And then there's "effectively ageless", where they do technically have a life span, but it's measured in multiple millennia and as close to ageless as makes no difference for us mayflies.

These aren't strict categories. A lot of fanfic posits that Celestia falls somewhere between unharmable and ageless -- that she isn't immune to injury, but she has some serious resistance to it. And somewhere between ageless and "effectively" you can get characters like Babylon 5's Lorien or the Mass Effect Reapers, who do seem to have some kind of life cycle, but it's so vast that they can outlive stars.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Scienza on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:57 am

cb5 wrote:Nah canon ruins fanon everything.  Celestia, Luna, Cadance, Twilight aren't immortal and it's not canon that they're immortal.  Alicorns are just long living.  Alicorns being immortal was a fanon thing that people for the longest time thought was canon, but got shot down by word of faust herself.
Really? I don't remember her saying it, but I might've missed it in one of her Q&A sessions. Can you post a link to it?

The FoE subniche of the mlp fandom is the only one that I know of that gives a care about canon though.  I just write it off as a "parallel universe" and call it done.
The problem is just that FoE isn't "hard" AU, so it exists in, if not the FiM universe proper, a very close copy of it (this is opposed to say, Mane Effect, which exists in a completely different universe than show canon), and so finding the boundaries of it is much harder. That's why FoE worked, since you could very easily see how the happy universe you loved could develop into an irradiated wasteland, but it leaves authors in a very difficult position in regards to show canon. Reworking what you've already wrote to fit new canon is one thing, that can easily break your work's internal logic, but adapting new canon can work, especially since the original was so vague about certain things. There are some things that are definite (i.e. Twilicorn), but the line is always fuzzy.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by cb5 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:39 am

FeatherDust wrote:
stringtheory wrote:>>Twilicorn
I'm in the camp of 'should've waited a couple more seasons' personally.
My understanding is that MMC was originally conceived as a show-closer because they weren't sure if they were getting a season 4.  The half-length S3 makes up the total 65 episodes necessary to take the show to syndication and there was, at some point in the process, a real question of whether there WOULD be any more.  Once they did get the green light for S4, MMC got reworked to be less of a final ending, but that's why they chose to do Twilicorn now rather than later.
Actually faust's Q&A on 4chan also stated that she originally intended from the get go for twilight to become a alicorn.  The reason why FoE isn't closely parallel to canon is faust's original idea was for twilight to become a alicorn, which Celestia never turned her into one in FoE hence FoE hasn't been canon since season 1 episode 1.
Scienza wrote:
cb5 wrote:Nah canon ruins fanon everything.  Celestia, Luna, Cadance, Twilight aren't immortal and it's not canon that they're immortal.  Alicorns are just long living.  Alicorns being immortal was a fanon thing that people for the longest time thought was canon, but got shot down by word of faust herself.
Really? I don't remember her saying it, but I might've missed it in one of her Q&A sessions. Can you post a link to it?

The FoE subniche of the mlp fandom is the only one that I know of that gives a care about canon though.  I just write it off as a "parallel universe" and call it done.
The problem is just that FoE isn't "hard" AU, so it exists in, if not the FiM universe proper, a very close copy of it (this is opposed to say, Mane Effect, which exists in a completely different universe than show canon), and so finding the boundaries of it is much harder. That's why FoE worked, since you could very easily see how the happy universe you loved could develop into an irradiated wasteland, but it leaves authors in a very difficult position in regards to show canon. Reworking what you've already wrote to fit new canon is one thing, that can easily break your work's internal logic, but adapting new canon can work, especially since the original was so vague about certain things. There are some things that are definite (i.e. Twilicorn), but the line is always fuzzy.
It was one of Faust's Q&A with fans on 4chan and ponychan.  It's on equestria daily, just use the search engine on their site and type "faust Q&A"

I would like it if people stopped giving a care about canon, cause with what we've been teased with for season 4 FoE isn't even going to be close to canon.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by FeatherDust on Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:40 am

cb5 wrote:
FeatherDust wrote:My understanding is that MMC was originally conceived as a show-closer because they weren't sure if they were getting a season 4... Once they did get the green light for S4, MMC got reworked to be less of a final ending, but that's why they chose to do Twilicorn now rather than later.
Actually faust's Q&A on 4chan also stated that she originally intended from the get go for twilight to become a alicorn.  The reason why FoE isn't closely parallel to canon is faust's original idea was for twilight to become a alicorn, which Celestia never turned her into one in FoE hence FoE hasn't been canon since season 1 episode 1.
Uh... I didn't claim Faust never intended alicorn. However she intended for it to happen at the end of a long story and probably be the show-closer. I'm explaining why MMC specifically wound up as the Alicornication episode, with not much setup or warning, despite not being the show-closer -- because it was originally intended to be the closer, but then they got renewed and had to shuffle a bit.

You can actually see this as a theme throughout season 3 -- there's a lot of it that feels like "tying up the loose ends", which makes sense if they had to start writing the season as if it would be the last.

Also, point of contention, Celestia didn't turn Twilight into anything. She was just present to witness the event that would have happened with or without her.

It was one of Faust's Q&A with fans on 4chan and ponychan.  It's on equestria daily, just use the search engine on their site and type "faust Q&A"
I asked for a specific quote because I'm not sure which one you're using to support this. I don't recall any of them addressing Celestia and Luna.

If it's the QA I think it is, she said Cadence isn't immortal, but that doesn't mean Celestia and Luna aren't. It only says that immortality is not an inherent part of being an alicorn. In fact, I believe she specifically said that Cadence's lifespan is only that of a normal pony (and thus she won't outlive her husband, at least by more than the usual amount, which was the question). We already know that Celestia is over a thousand years old, so there's already some kind of major difference between Celestia and Luna's nature versus Cadence and Twilight's.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by cb5 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:54 am

FeatherDust wrote:
cb5 wrote:
FeatherDust wrote:My understanding is that MMC was originally conceived as a show-closer because they weren't sure if they were getting a season 4... Once they did get the green light for S4, MMC got reworked to be less of a final ending, but that's why they chose to do Twilicorn now rather than later.
Actually faust's Q&A on 4chan also stated that she originally intended from the get go for twilight to become a alicorn.  The reason why FoE isn't closely parallel to canon is faust's original idea was for twilight to become a alicorn, which Celestia never turned her into one in FoE hence FoE hasn't been canon since season 1 episode 1.
Uh... I didn't claim Faust never intended alicorn. However she intended for it to happen at the end of a long story and probably be the show-closer.  I'm explaining why MMC specifically wound up as the Alicornication episode, with not much setup or warning, despite not being the show-closer -- because it was originally intended to be the closer, but then they got renewed and had to shuffle a bit.

You can actually see this as a theme throughout season 3 -- there's a lot of it that feels like "tying up the loose ends", which makes sense if they had to start writing the season as if it would be the last.

Also, point of contention, Celestia didn't turn Twilight into anything.  She was just present to witness the event that would have happened with or without her.

It was one of Faust's Q&A with fans on 4chan and ponychan.  It's on equestria daily, just use the search engine on their site and type "faust Q&A"
I asked for a specific quote because I'm not sure which one you're using to support this.  I don't recall any of them addressing Celestia and Luna.

If it's the QA I think it is, she said Cadence isn't immortal, but that doesn't mean Celestia and Luna aren't.  It only says that immortality is not an inherent part of being an alicorn.  In fact, I believe she specifically said that Cadence's lifespan is only that of a normal pony (and thus she won't outlive her husband, at least by more than the usual amount, which was the question).  We already know that Celestia is over a thousand years old, so there's already some kind of major difference between Celestia and Luna's nature versus Cadence and Twilight's.
http://www.equestriadaily.com/2013/05/lauren-faust-q-part-2.html
Celestia and Luna were born as alicorns.
They're not gods.
http://www.equestriadaily.com/2013/06/lauren-faust-ponychan-q-compiled.html
Twilight was supposed to replace celestia.
http://www.equestriadaily.com/2013/06/lauren-faust-ponychan-q-compiled.html
Not only unicorns can become alicorns, but pegasus and earth ponies as well.
http://www.equestriadaily.com/2013/05/lauren-fausts-twitter-questions-and.html
Celestia and luna each got 3 elements of harmony.  There were no other wielders.

Cadance wasn't supposed to be a alicorn in the first place btw, and when she was asked about that she agreed that it was a fuckup.  Also if twilight is supposed to replace celestia, and celestia is thousands of years old how can a normal long life pony replace her for thousands of years?

There's a reason why I keep saying people need to stop caring so much about canon, cause word of faust trumps FoE lore.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:37 pm

Regarding Word of Faust, though... I'm not sure we can rely on that as canon, either. I mean, it's more canon than fanon is, not unlike the Extended Universe in Star Wars, but it's not canon always with the show, or even comics, canon, both of which are more "official."

Basically, I'm with CB5 that canon is a clusterfuck and you should only care about it inasmuch as you want to. =P
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by cb5 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:42 pm

Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Regarding Word of Faust, though... I'm not sure we can rely on that as canon, either. I mean, it's more canon than fanon is, not unlike the Extended Universe in Star Wars, but it's not canon always with the show, or even comics, canon, both of which are more "official."

Basically, I'm with CB5 that canon is a clusterfuck and you should only care about it inasmuch as you want to. =P
Personally I would not say that anywhere else on the internet. Here it's fine, but if like on EQD or such you disagreed with "word of faust" you would be lucky to not get shanked cause lauren is god tier in the fandom.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Overlong Analysis Cobalt on Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:13 pm

@cb5
Well, I'm watching the show we have, not an alt-universe version. =P Seriously, though, I like Lauren's version, I think it would have been fantastic if her original vision had been allowed to come to fruition, but... Like she herself says, her word is not law. Not to mention that she was never the sole creative voice for the show, either; as much as we like the idea of the lone visionary hermit in the wilderness solving the answers to life, the universe, and everything, MLPFIM was not only her project, and her designs would have gone through iteration and been built on by the rest of the staff had she stayed on. Figuring out what would have actually happened had Faust still been on the show is an exercise - not in futility, perhaps, but still just an exercise. The canon you get from said exercise will only be as "trve kvlt"* (pardon my black metal speak - the metaphor is very apt, I think) as you decide it is - any headcanon that even comes close to being complete will still be fanon, once the holes are filled in, and it still won't be what the show's actual canon is; claims otherwise - of a mythical "true" canon - ring hollow. That's my initial take, anyway.

Alternate metaphor: Lauren was the Pope of the Ponies. She left, though, and others took her place. Her teachings since then may still be in line with the Cult of Ponies, but they are not official dogma the way information from the current Pope of Ponies would be. In this metaphor, FOE is a heretical offshoot. =P

*("Trve" and "kvlt" ["true" and "cult," respectively] are terms used both mockingly and in sincerity by the black metal community to describe black metal that matches the sound, style, and atmosphere of the early '90s Mayhem-era Norwegian scene, which was cut prematurely short by murder, arson, terrorism, cannibalism, suicides, hate crimes, Nazis, Communists, Satanists, and, well, black metal being black metal; nowadays, black metal has moved beyond that point, of course and thank god, and attempts to hearken back to the before-time are dismissing the two decades of history and genre advancement that took place since then. Some people will always claim that the genre was better back then [WHY], or even that anything made after that point isn't "true" black metal, but the world and the genre has moved on.)
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by FeatherDust on Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:25 pm

cb5 wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Regarding Word of Faust, though... I'm not sure we can rely on that as canon, either. I mean, it's more canon than fanon is, not unlike the Extended Universe in Star Wars, but it's not canon always with the show, or even comics, canon, both of which are more "official."

Basically, I'm with CB5 that canon is a clusterfuck and you should only care about it inasmuch as you want to. =P
Personally I would not say that anywhere else on the internet.  Here it's fine, but if like on EQD or such you disagreed with "word of faust" you would be lucky to not get shanked cause lauren is god tier in the fandom.
Ok, let me be clear here.  I've been around the Star Wars fandom a long time and you are misusing the word 'canon'.

Lauren Faust is not canon.  That is not what the word means.  Canon is what happens on the screen, or in the comic book, or in whatever other published media are produced. (Generally in a hierarchy -- the show trumps the comic book, the comic trumps one-off books, etc.)

Word of Faust, Word of Wootie, or any other crew statements are useful in as far as they are statements of intent, but they are subject to change at any time by having an episode that says otherwise.  Faust herself has made this very clear; anything she says is only speaking to her original intent.  Heck, even if she'd stayed on the show, that intent may or may not have actually been in force two-plus years later.  Original intent is always subordinate to the needs of the actual show-writing process.

Word of Faust trumps nothing.  Somebody can grumble that her original idea was better than what was eventually produced, but again, needs of the show -- we can't re-rack history and see how the show would've played out if Faust had stayed on it.  The show as shown is always "the truth" regardless of what Lauren originally meant to happen.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Scienza on Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:31 pm

FeatherDust wrote:
cb5 wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Regarding Word of Faust, though... I'm not sure we can rely on that as canon, either. I mean, it's more canon than fanon is, not unlike the Extended Universe in Star Wars, but it's not canon always with the show, or even comics, canon, both of which are more "official."

Basically, I'm with CB5 that canon is a clusterfuck and you should only care about it inasmuch as you want to. =P
Personally I would not say that anywhere else on the internet.  Here it's fine, but if like on EQD or such you disagreed with "word of faust" you would be lucky to not get shanked cause lauren is god tier in the fandom.
Ok, let me be clear here.  I've been around the Star Wars fandom a long time and you are misusing the word 'canon'.

Lauren Faust is not canon.  That is not what the word means.  Canon is what happens on the screen, or in the comic book, or in whatever other published media are produced. (Generally in a hierarchy -- the show trumps the comic book, the comic trumps one-off books, etc.)

Word of Faust, Word of Wootie, or any other crew statements are useful in as far as they are statements of intent, but they are subject to change at any time by having an episode that says otherwise.  Faust herself has made this very clear; anything she says is only speaking to her original intent.  Heck, even if she'd stayed on the show, that intent may or may not have actually been in force two-plus years later.  Original intent is always subordinate to the needs of the actual show-writing process.

Word of Faust trumps nothing.  Somebody can grumble that her original idea was better than what was eventually produced, but again, needs of the show -- we can't re-rack history and see how the show would've played out if Faust had stayed on it.  The show as shown is always "the truth" regardless of what Lauren originally meant to happen.
In effect, Lauren Faust's statements are the equivalent of Lucas saying that Greedo shot first.

Also, perhaps the Star Wars EU is the wrong thing to bring up when the new trilogy is very likely to obliterate all of it.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Moodyman90 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:53 pm

As it currently stands, I think (thus my opinion and in no way official) MLP canon is :
-What Hasbro allows on screen

-What Hasbro allows in the comics(which can be discounted by the show)

-What the active production team says (which can, will, and has been overruled by Hasbro)

-What Lauren Faust and any other members of the production team who are no longer actively working on the show say, as long as it doesn't contradict anything from the above.

-What Fandom has come up with, that is widely accepted by the rest of the fandom, that doesn't contradict any of the above AND what Hasbro hasn't struck down.

Obviously Fallout Equestria and all of it's spin offs hasn't been canon to the show at all since the beginning. Certain events from the show can be said to have happened in the FoE universe, but obviously certain events couldn't have happened. What can fit and what can't fit is up to the author of the story. Personally I feel like Somber has done a great job incorporating bits and pieces from the show into PH as they came out, but much like the original FoE, you can tell what was written before the events of a new episode and what hasn't.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by cb5 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:56 pm

Scienza wrote:
FeatherDust wrote:
cb5 wrote:
Overlong Analysis Cobalt wrote:Regarding Word of Faust, though... I'm not sure we can rely on that as canon, either. I mean, it's more canon than fanon is, not unlike the Extended Universe in Star Wars, but it's not canon always with the show, or even comics, canon, both of which are more "official."

Basically, I'm with CB5 that canon is a clusterfuck and you should only care about it inasmuch as you want to. =P
Personally I would not say that anywhere else on the internet.  Here it's fine, but if like on EQD or such you disagreed with "word of faust" you would be lucky to not get shanked cause lauren is god tier in the fandom.
Ok, let me be clear here.  I've been around the Star Wars fandom a long time and you are misusing the word 'canon'.

Lauren Faust is not canon.  That is not what the word means.  Canon is what happens on the screen, or in the comic book, or in whatever other published media are produced. (Generally in a hierarchy -- the show trumps the comic book, the comic trumps one-off books, etc.)

Word of Faust, Word of Wootie, or any other crew statements are useful in as far as they are statements of intent, but they are subject to change at any time by having an episode that says otherwise.  Faust herself has made this very clear; anything she says is only speaking to her original intent.  Heck, even if she'd stayed on the show, that intent may or may not have actually been in force two-plus years later.  Original intent is always subordinate to the needs of the actual show-writing process.

Word of Faust trumps nothing.  Somebody can grumble that her original idea was better than what was eventually produced, but again, needs of the show -- we can't re-rack history and see how the show would've played out if Faust had stayed on it.  The show as shown is always "the truth" regardless of what Lauren originally meant to happen.
In effect, Lauren Faust's statements are the equivalent of Lucas saying that Greedo shot first.

Also, perhaps the Star Wars EU is the wrong thing to bring up when the new trilogy is very likely to obliterate all of it.
You guys better not say this at any pony convention cause chances are someone would break your nose for this view. The reason being is that we have fan art of lauren faust's oc being depicted AS god. When I say "god tier" I don't mean it metaphorically, I mean it literally to the brony fandom disagreeing with faust is heresy and that I may be ballsy as fuck, but even I have enough common sense to not disagree with faust openly in public cause I would wind up with my blood all over the sidewalk.

I personally disagree on some of lauren's original ideas, but I would never openly disagree in public cause that's a quick way to end up in the emergency room.

I'm just warning you guys to not say this next time you go to a pony convention.
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Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by FeatherDust on Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:27 pm

Uh huh. Sure. Whatever.
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