[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

cb5 wrote:What happens is someone or something is in the exact spot of your target location?
What happens if there's not enough energy to make the full teleport?  By that I mean what happens to a pony's atoms if there isn't enough juice to recombine them?
What happens if the target location's coordinates' are incorrect?
What happens if the teleport is interrupted?

Magical accident fanfics notwithstanding, unicorn magic seems to automatically fail rather than produce unforseen consequences.

Usually.

SilentCarto wrote:Given what we've seen Twilight do, I tend to think the spell has some sort of failsafe that prevents the user from teleporting into other objects, incompletely teleporting, or whatever. Something certainly caused Twilight's first teleport attempt in Dragon Quest to fail, and it failed by not happening at all.

 That would actually make some sense.  The downside is probably someone must have screwed up for them to have thought of needing a safety spell to make sure they have can teleport first.

Now I'm imagining some poor scholar showing off a teleport spell to his colleagues, teleporting half inside a wall and someone winning his noble just by stealing his research after he's dead and upgrading it with a safety.

cb5 wrote:That would actually make some sense.  The downside is probably someone must have screwed up for them to have thought of needing a safety spell to make sure they have can teleport first.

Now I'm imagining some poor scholar showing off a teleport spell to his colleagues, teleporting half inside a wall and someone winning his noble just by stealing his research after he's dead and upgrading it with a safety.

I really think the researcher would instead be staring at a mannequine stuck halfway through the wall and saying, "Woah! Let's, uh, let's fix that before we try it ourselves."

I mean, honestly, if you and I can come up with these issues in a world where teleportation doesn't even exist, I would hope someone who was considering actually doing it themselves would also think of them ahead of time.

cb5 wrote: That would actually make some sense.  The downside is probably someone must have screwed up for them to have thought of needing a safety spell to make sure they have can teleport first.

Now I'm imagining some poor scholar showing off a teleport spell to his colleagues, teleporting half inside a wall and someone winning his noble just by stealing his research after he's dead and upgrading it with a safety.

I think the teleportation spell is more instinctual or reflexive. The first time we see Twilight do it in the show she's surprised, and Blackjack certainly did not put complicated effort into it besides the urge to vacate the area. Maybe the mechanics it operates on simply makes teleporting into stuff more solid than air much more difficult and requires much more energy. Heck, lemme stretch some headcannon here: When an object is teleported into a location, it displaces the material surrounding its entrance. (Lesson Zero had Twilight teleporting inside a ball, which made it pop.) The displacement of air requires far less energy than displacement of, for example, rock. If one were to use enough energy to teleport an object inside a rock, (even partially,) then the rock would explode around the object. Using teleportation as a weapon requires logarithmically more energy than a lethal incendiary spell, and only extreme precision would make pebble-sized object lethal. I can see teleporting small stuff into water as an advanced way to train magic strength.

I am now imagining an assassin unicorn who causes blood clots in his/her victim's brains.

I am remembering a scene where an alicorn teleports itself into the head of a Hydra, killing it.

"...Go ghosty, Mimi!  Go ghosty!"

SilentCarto wrote:

cb5 wrote:That would actually make some sense.  The downside is probably someone must have screwed up for them to have thought of needing a safety spell to make sure they have can teleport first.

Now I'm imagining some poor scholar showing off a teleport spell to his colleagues, teleporting half inside a wall and someone winning his noble just by stealing his research after he's dead and upgrading it with a safety.

I really think the researcher would instead be staring at a mannequine stuck halfway through the wall and saying, "Woah! Let's, uh, let's fix that before we try it ourselves."

I mean, honestly, if you and I can come up with these issues in a world where teleportation doesn't even exist, I would hope someone who was considering actually doing it themselves would also think of them ahead of time.

 "That's right, Barney. This is a red letter day. We'll inaugurate the new teleport with a double transmission."
"You mean it's working? For real this time? Because … I still have nightmares about that cat."
"What cat?"
"Now, now, there is nothing to be worried about, we have made major strides since then, major strides."
"What cat?"

What it feels like catching up in this thread:

0:29 is when you're almost done, you go to bed, and another ten pages pop up the next day.

Anybody else notice that BJ’s big teleport was a purple flash? I don’t think the teleporting is hers- I think it might be Unity’s.

Also, Rampage got left alone with foals. The same foals she was kept from following shortly beforehand. Sure, they weren’t miserable any more, but still...

My final observation: The Dealer’s been watching BJ since Miramare. Why not ever since the stable? What kept him from noticing that EC-1101 was on the move again?

@Glory/Splendid controversy
What if this is something much darker than what we are taking it for? We aren’t getting the story straight from the horse’s mouth- well, we are, but it is still second hand. There are many things we can’t see.

SilentCarto wrote:
As an aside, the Ace of Spades is famously known as the "death card", though it's generally downplayed as general misfortune or upheaval. The Queen of Spades is generally said to represent a widow or divorcée. ...Hey, wait, I think we know one of those!

I know this ain't what you were getting at, but put all that together and it makes me wonder more about the circumstances of Hatches' death.
"Death is your gift..."
Like the Splendid situation, we know the final outcome but not the (IMPORTANT) minor details that completely change the context. We still haven’t gotten BJ’s real buttmark story, not really. Hatches could have had some major importance that BJ refuses to remember.

Last wrote:Checking around I notice a few faces seem to be missing. Do Random and Sindri still visit the forum? What about Kim?

Random stopped some time ago, which is depressing. He had a good head. The last post on Ask Redeye (the only other place I know of where he speaks) was on April 16. Kim... well, swicked covered that. As for Sindri... according to the site, he was on yesterday. Hasn’t posted anything in a good month, though. Fingers crossed that he’s just catching up.

Quotidian wrote:
I think the problem is that people don't really buy Glory being okay with an open relationship, which I can kind of understand. She's lost damn near everything. Her home, her family, her cutie mark, her body. I'd think she would be doing everything in her power to hold on to Blackjack, which makes sleeping around the last thing she would do. Unless, of course, she's paradoxically trying to show BJ she's okay with her promiscuity by indulging in it herself, and with a stallion, no less, because BJ had earlier made an approving comment about bisexuality. That, coupled with the whole being in heat thing, makes her behavior seem a lot more understandable, if not exactly healthy.

If it isn’t something more complicated, this is what I’m reading of it. More insecurity to the most insecure member of the group. “I’m okay with it, look at how okay I am with this, please don’t leave me.” Now obviously BJ would still stay if Glory didn’t go out of her way to approve everything about BJ-World with a big fat stamp of approval, but it seems to me that this isn’t something Glory can figure out on a fundamental level. BJ’s got depression, Glory has anxiety, and is probably incapable of leaving well enough alone.

Technowolf wrote:
What I think is that Rampage is Twist and Shujaa's magical lesbian spawn who then got the Phoenix talisman put in her by Twist when during the final bombing.

Sounds... horrifying. Imagine your two mommies just chilling in the back of your brain forever and always, seeing everything you do. No wonder Rampage is messed up.

But anyways, as per SilentCarto’s observations... blank, maybe? What are some FiM beasties that one person could call an animal but another person would not?

RoboRed wrote:*OFFTOPIC*
I just saw Kim's username on the list of people online. I'd screenshot, but I'm on my phone right now.

Point is, she's back! Yay!

Hooray-

swicked wrote:
She's been off and on many times. I've occasionally asked for her to start posting, again.
The problem is she isn't following PH anymore; it's far too misogynistic for her tastes.

Something you might remember her commenting on often prior to her leaving.

Aw, dammit... thanks for playing Kim's Advocate, swicked. Truth be told, I missed having that viewpoint around.

Somber wrote:"...Go ghosty, Mimi!  Go ghosty!"

(not actual Blackjack, but close enough)

I haven't seen Wafflesmart in a long time, either.

A thought occurs to me when thinking about the sexuality of FoE pony.

I know some of this is attributed to the fact that OCs seem to be more clothed than TV pony due to the lack of originality that comes with rainbow coloured horses (not from a creativity loss standpoint but differentiation and the written medium needing to more descriptive differences of unknowns than saying what colour they are) but it would seem that most ponies in FoEniverse are more or less clothed in someway either for protection or otherwise.

Perhaps after the bombs and the lack of gods that live among them, ponies discovered some form of "shame" that would make them feel a need to feel clothed in some way. The loss of the utopian Equestria then correlates to the biblical fall of man, where shame and sin are discovered and evil manifests.

This would make Stable 99 somewhat strange in both the way they normally went around naked and the overwelming openness to sex. Perhaps where Glory comes from, the post-apocalpse sense of shame means that up in the clouds, ponies are generally more clothed than others. I'm not saying they live with full bodied clothing like humans do but even a jacket like Glory is depicted of having possesses enough of a cultural power of humility that it would explain Glory's apprehension of Blackjack's lifestyle and also magnify her attraction to Blackjack, who at times feels no qualms about being in the buff. The 99 atmosphere could also add to Scotch's nonchalance of talking about her playful meaningless sexual encounters, but her prepubescent mentality also adds to her need for comfort in wearing coveralls constantly on the outside, indicating that her sexual maturity was arrested by the trauma she encountered in the stable and a need to fit in in the harsh outside world. It'd be interesting to see if Glory, who shows her affectionate control of Blackjack by having her wear more articles of clothing (the collar) eventually sheds her barding to be desirable to her.

Err.. This is a really roundabout and overanalyzed way to ask if all FoE pegasai wear clothes.

Dangit, that makes practical sense and also destroys my cool theory. :(

Meleagridis wrote:My final observation: The Dealer’s been watching BJ since Miramare. Why not ever since the stable? What kept him from noticing that EC-1101 was on the move again?

At first, when you brought this up, I thought perhaps he might have been watching before then and just using it as a marker, but given the context I think you're probably right in taking it as the literal starting point.

At a guess, I'd say because it was at Miramare that she first used Folly. True, there's no indication that it used EC-1101 itself, but it seems like as good of a thing as any to draw Echo's attention, especially since she had opened a silver-bullet case at Ironshod R&D. And as for why he might never have noticed before then? Well, 99 was basically a routing point where it got trapped, not really a destination at all, so being stuck in transit in a PipBuck rather than a stable's computer may not have been such a big deal. And it wasn't until long after Miramare, indeed after Blackjack & Co. returned to 99, that EC-1101 reached its next real target.

A couple incidentals from chapter 5:

Icy Shake wrote:

A couple incidentals from chapter 5:

Ah, thank you. As for the quote, well, the original was a misquotation anyway. I think that there's a certain pleasing progression there. :)

O. Hinds wrote:

Icy Shake wrote:

A couple incidentals from chapter 5:

Ah, thank you.  As for the quote, well, the original was a misquotation anyway.  I think that there's a certain pleasing progression there.  :)

Never knew that. Of course, now I can't help but to think of the riddle game from The Hobbit, and I'm just not sure that I should be laughing this much.

Icy Shake wrote:Never knew that.

IIRC, yes, though now I can't seem to find confirmation.

Icy Shake wrote:Of course, now I can't help but to think of the riddle game from The Hobbit, and I'm just not sure that I should be laughing this much.

...Sorry, not seeing it. How does this lead back to that? It sounds funny, whatever it is.

O. Hinds wrote:

Icy Shake wrote:Of course, now I can't help but to think of the riddle game from The Hobbit, and I'm just not sure that I should be laughing this much.

...Sorry, not seeing it.  How does this lead back to that?  It sounds funny, whatever it is.

Well, you mentioning that got me to look up some translations, and they just had an effect on me, that perhaps you'll understand after seeing. . .

Bhagavad-Gita Chapter 11, Verse 32 wrote:The Blessed Lord said: Time I am, destroyer of the worlds, and I have come to engage all people. With the exception of you [the Pandavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.

or more so. . .

Bhagavad-Gita Chapter 11, Verse 32 wrote:The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people. With the exception of you [the Pāṇḍavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.

but especially. . .

Bhagavad-Gita Chapter 11, Verse 32 wrote:Lord Krsna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.

But yeah, it of course goes back to the last (real) riddle

Gollum's Final Riddle wrote:This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.

Answer:

So, I don't know if you'll actually find it as funny as I did, but there it is.

Meleagridis wrote:Anybody else notice that BJ’s big teleport was a purple flash? I don’t think the teleporting is hers- I think it might be Unity’s.

Yup, I think you're spot-on. She's borrowing all this newfound magical talent without even knowing it.

Meleagridis wrote:My final observation: The Dealer’s been watching BJ since Miramare. Why not ever since the stable? What kept him from noticing that EC-1101 was on the move again?

He was "asleep" or uninterested until Folly acknowledged her as an authorized user.

Meleagridis wrote:I know this ain't what you were getting at, but put all that together and it makes me wonder more about the circumstances of Hatches' death.
"Death is your gift..."
Like the Splendid situation, we know the final outcome but not the (IMPORTANT) minor details that completely change the context. We still haven’t gotten BJ’s real buttmark story, not really. Hatches could have had some major importance that BJ refuses to remember.

I think you're right that there's more to this story than we've been told. Something that profoundly influenced BJ's life -- perhaps that was when she realized how important it is that "security saves ponies". They all just sat there in shock while Hatches died; maybe if someone had sprung into action and called Medical, she could have been saved. It would only take one pony to take control of the situation and make things happen, and BJ does seem to be rather good at that.

I definitely don't think the cards represent anything luck or fortune based. If I recall correctly, BJ's Luck stat is pretty average. Perhaps "Ace and Queen of Spades" could be read as the highest possible value for two cards involving a Queen -- the mare in charge, in other words.

Meleagridis wrote:If it isn’t something more complicated, this is what I’m reading of it. More insecurity to the most insecure member of the group. “I’m okay with it, look at how okay I am with this, please don’t leave me.”

Hm. Not a bad hypothesis. It's also significant that Rainbow Dash has known anxiety issues -- maybe those are leaking over much like Psalm's self-destructive tendancies do. (From Sonic Rainboom an Mare-Do-Well, I get the sense that Dash has self-esteem issues and most of her behavior stems from a combination of a craving for the approval of others and a constant need to prove herself to herself.)

Meleagridis wrote:But anyways, as per SilentCarto’s observations... blank, maybe? What are some FiM beasties that one person could call an animal but another person would not?

Well, almost anything, really. Pony intelligence seems to "rub off" on animals that associate heavily with them, like Angel and Philomena. Compared to the "rank and file" bunnies that Fluttershy and Applejack tried to herd, Angel is clearly much more intelligent and self-aware. (Makes one wonder what's up with Owlowicious.) So Peppermint could just be an animal with near-pony mentality.

On the other hoof, there's any number of mythologicals that could live somewhere between "animal", "beast", and "person". Steven Magnet and Iron Will are clearly people; the manticore and cockatrice are clearly near the "animal" end of the scale. A creature like that could easily fall somewhere in the middle, where the lines between "pet" and "companion" get blurry and an uninvolved observer could be justified in calling them a "beast".

For that matter, it could also be something that blurs the definition of "animal" altogether -- either on the animal/plant side, like a timberwolf, or on the animal/spirit side, like a windigo. ...say, what sort of plant does that Mint-al extract come from, anyway?

In short, the list of possibilities is way too long to make any sort of educated guess with the scraps of information we have at this point. And that's assuming that her concern for "Peppermint" and for the disposition of her "pet" in case of her death are the same concern.

Icy Shake wrote:

O. Hinds wrote:

Icy Shake wrote:Of course, now I can't help but to think of the riddle game from The Hobbit, and I'm just not sure that I should be laughing this much.

...Sorry, not seeing it.  How does this lead back to that?  It sounds funny, whatever it is.

Well, you mentioning that got me to look up some translations, and they just had an effect on me, that perhaps you'll understand after seeing. . .

Bhagavad-Gita Chapter 11, Verse 32 wrote:The Blessed Lord said: Time I am, destroyer of the worlds, and I have come to engage all people. With the exception of you [the Pandavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.

or more so. . .

Bhagavad-Gita Chapter 11, Verse 32 wrote:The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people. With the exception of you [the Pāṇḍavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.

but especially. . .

Bhagavad-Gita Chapter 11, Verse 32 wrote:Lord Krsna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.

But yeah, it of course goes back to the last (real) riddle

Gollum's Final Riddle wrote:This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.

Answer:

So, I don't know if you'll actually find it as funny as I did, but there it is.

Ah. :)

SilentCarto wrote:If I recall correctly, BJ's Luck stat is pretty average.

Nope. 9, IIRC.

Meleagridis wrote:Anybody else notice that BJ’s big teleport was a purple flash? I don’t think the teleporting is hers- I think it might be Unity’s.

I'm not sure if it was here or in the story, but I think I remember someone speculating that it might have been something to do with Twilight. At the time (around Blackjack's first meeting with the minotaur), the focus was more on genetics, but with what we know now, it could be rather interesting evidence for Twi having been largely shunted into Lacunae—and connecting through her to BJ—for discussions about Lacunae rescuing Littlepip.

@Glory/Splendid controversy
What if this is something much darker than what we are taking it for? We aren’t getting the story straight from the horse’s mouth- well, we are, but it is still second hand. There are many things we can’t see.

While it is certainly possible, the way Glory was acting around BJ for the rest of the chapter makes me doubt that she's looking for somepony else. While her being in heat might not be the only reason for it, I'm inclined to believe that it's by far the largest part.

Last wrote:Checking around I notice a few faces seem to be missing. Do Random and Sindri still visit the forum? What about Kim?

Random stopped some time ago, which is depressing. He had a good head. The last post on Ask Redeye (the only other place I know of where he speaks) was on April 16. Kim... well, swicked covered that. As for Sindri... according to the site, he was on yesterday. Hasn’t posted anything in a good month, though. Fingers crossed that he’s just catching up.

Random is on FimFiction as well, and he was posting stuff not any longer than a month ago. Not sure if he's still following PH, but I don't remember him having as much trouble with it as Kim. Don't know anything about Sindri.

Somber wrote:"...Go ghosty, Mimi!  Go ghosty!"

(not actual Blackjack, but close enough)

They are still some of the most painful deaths in the story. Somber, no matter what you may say about your writing, you were still able to take two antagonists and turn them into characters that we truly care about, in only a chapter or two. I have absolutely no problem placing you alongside my favorite authors, published or not. Thank you.

O. Hinds wrote:

SilentCarto wrote:If I recall correctly, BJ's Luck stat is pretty average.

Nope.  9, IIRC.

It was 9, but now it's 10.

PH Ch. 54 wrote:Quest perk achieved: My Little Ponies – You have collected one of each of the six Ministry Mares statuettes. Stronger together than they are apart, they have granted you +1 Luck in addition to their normal benefits.

Add to that Boo's probable 10 in luck...

That's a match made in Hippocratic !

SilentCarto wrote:

cb5 wrote:What happens is someone or something is in the exact spot of your target location?
What happens if there's not enough energy to make the full teleport?  By that I mean what happens to a pony's atoms if there isn't enough juice to recombine them?
What happens if the target location's coordinates' are incorrect?
What happens if the teleport is interrupted?

Magical accident fanfics notwithstanding, unicorn magic seems to automatically fail rather than produce unforseen consequences.

Usually.

To CB5, I'd point out that you're really assuming the characteristics of a teleport here.  It's much more likely in my opinion that a teleport doesn't tear the target to shreds, hurl the shreds somewhere else, and pull them back together, but instead creates a momentary connection between two distant points -- a wormhole, portal, stargate, whatever you wanna call it -- or else work like the D&D teleportation spell, which pulls the caster into the Astral plane, where time and distance have no meaning, and then pops them back out someplace else an instant later.

These would also nicely answer the issues of teleporting inside objects; if your target point is inside a solid object, the output portal can't open and the spell simply ends, or the output portal slips sideways far enough to be outside the object. (That is to say, to a point with lower energy content.)

To SilentCarto: To be fair, the orangifying spell worked PRECISELY as intended, it just happened to hit a bluejay and a frog instead of an apple.

I've got to wonder why teleportation hasn't been weaponized yet. Steel ranger tearing you up? Just teleport a their head six inches to the left and boom, problem solved.

Does anyone recall if the Dealer has explicitly been stated to be EC-1101? Because if he is something simply capable of tracking the program, that might explain a thing or two.

swicked wrote:

Caoimhe wrote:Dangit, that makes practical sense and also destroys my cool theory. :(

Well, there might have been clothes to start with that the unicorns of shadowbolt tower could have been paid to maintain, there just wouldn't likely be any new clothes due to a lack of any raw materials.
Some pegasi might have also perfected some form of cloud-weaving that would allow them to make a sort of clothes out of the only material they had in sufficient abundance to use for such a luxury.

Skylons.

Alternate ending:
Clothing from pegallams.

SilentCarto wrote:
Well, almost anything, really. Pony intelligence seems to "rub off" on animals that associate heavily with them, like Angel and Philomena. Compared to the "rank and file" bunnies that Fluttershy and Applejack tried to herd, Angel is clearly much more intelligent and self-aware. (Makes one wonder what's up with Owlowicious.) So Peppermint could just be an animal with near-pony mentality.

On the other hoof, there's any number of mythologicals that could live somewhere between "animal", "beast", and "person". Steven Magnet and Iron Will are clearly people; the manticore and cockatrice are clearly near the "animal" end of the scale. A creature like that could easily fall somewhere in the middle, where the lines between "pet" and "companion" get blurry and an uninvolved observer could be justified in calling them a "beast".

For that matter, it could also be something that blurs the definition of "animal" altogether -- either on the animal/plant side, like a timberwolf, or on the animal/spirit side, like a windigo. ...say, what sort of plant does that Mint-al extract come from, anyway?

In short, the list of possibilities is way too long to make any sort of educated guess with the scraps of information we have at this point. And that's assuming that her concern for "Peppermint" and for the disposition of her "pet" in case of her death are the same concern.

Mint-als are brewed from some eggs and a fresh smelling plant that glows in the dark, an enlighten-mint.

Right, Peppermint. The thing is that, while every FiM pet leaves Lassie in the dust, they are clearly pets. Even Angel who has often shown more agency than the main characters of the show is still just seen as an animal. The only one who gives him any extra attention is the same one that gives all animals extra attention. Somehow, there is a very clear line drawn between the 'people' creatures and the 'animal' creatures (a line that all to often seems to be drawn by the ability to speak and respect fashion- from moustaches to ties to toupees).

Now it could boil down to zebra life being simpler. Maybe Shujaa is just used to considering everything without hooves to be a savanna wandering murder-beast. But she's been in pony society enough, one would think she could recognize the line as others could. Which would make her judgement odd. If the idea that 'people' and 'animals' is so clear cut, then it would have to be something unusual indeed to blur the line like this.

Or it's their cat, and Shujaa's just teasing.

Quotidian wrote:I've got to wonder why teleportation hasn't been weaponized yet. Steel ranger tearing you up? Just teleport a their head six inches to the left and boom, problem solved.

Eh, some combination of too difficult, too much energy, and too impractical compared to just using more dakka. Also, if a unicorn could use tele-fragging too easily and too rapidly, they'd be able to kill anyone and anything.

Meleagridis wrote:Skylons.

...Eh?  I assume that you're not thinking of these, but I'm not sure what else you might mean.

My guesstake? It's a portmanteau: sky + nylon(s).

Icy Shake wrote:My guesstake? It's a portmanteau: sky + nylon(s).

Bingbingbing, we have a winner. Nacreous fibres for cumulocomfort that's out of this stratosphere.

Icy Shake wrote:My guesstake? It's a portmanteau: sky + nylon(s).

Meleagridis wrote:

Icy Shake wrote:My guesstake? It's a portmanteau: sky + nylon(s).

Bingbingbing, we have a winner. Nacreous fibres for cumulocomfort that's out of this stratosphere.

Ah, neat!